RWC Quarter Final: All Blacks - Argentina (09-10-2011, 20:30)

[donmcdazzle]

What point in this WC has Slade needed Nonu to control the backline? Cruden has played one game this year and has already done the same thing he did in his last test. It just reiterates the point I was making. If that tactic works (i.e. Nonu playing first reciever and having Cruden float around somewhere else) then that's fine, I'm all for it. But it worries me that he hasn't yet stepped up into that control room role. Like I said, if he ends up winning the thing, I'll eat my words. But too many people are placing too much emphasis on his provincial rugby.

Slade hasn't controlled the backline at any point so not sure where you're going with that.

 

[nickdnz]

Well, my thoughts:

1. Tony Woodcock: Another strong game from Woodcock, looking back to his best. Worked hard around the park and scrummaged well.
2. Kevin Mealamu: Pretty strong game, certainly looked good when making the metres but overall a fairly quiet game by his standards.
3. Owen Franks: Same as Woodcock.
4. Brad Thorn: Worked like a machine all day and really pleased for him to get the try.
5. Sam Whitelock: Another quiet game. Where did this guys 2010 form go? He's pretty much invisible on the pitch,
6. Jarome Kaino: Looked to have picked up an injury mid game and had a very quiet test by his recent standards. Still did well, just not amazing.
7. Richie McCaw: Worked well around the park but still some way off his old form. Still not convinced by him as a ball carrier.
8. Kieran Read: Looked still a little out of pace, but not bad for his second game back.
9. Piri Weepu: Deserved MOTM, but I do feel he tried to do too much. It's like he literally played halfback and first receiver by picking the ball from the ruck and running to first receiver position. We certainly didn't look dynamic enough, by no fault of his own. I wish he tried to get faster ball out as I think he was guilty of slowing it down when we needed to speed up. His goal kicking was refreshing.
10. Colin Slade: You've got to feel for the guy, but he's just not ready to play 1st 5/8th for the All Blacks in a World Cup final.
11. Sonny Bill Williams: Is not a wing. If you had a genuine speedster on the left wing, we would have finish off some of those oppertunities. He's a good player, but not sold at all with him on the wing, and for all the talk about his defense, he got caught napping for Argentina's try.
12. Ma'a Nonu: Was pretty well contained but looked good when he did make a break. If the AB's make it to the final against Wales, I'd love to see him against Roberts
13. Conrad Smith: Pretty much was the All Blacks fixer-upper. Saved a try and just generally defended well.
14. Cory Jane: Well, for his drinking and smoking shenanigans, he he played well on the wing and I think he's was vital for the All Blacks.
15. Mils Muliaina: Was quiet.

16. Andrew Hore: looked pretty good when he came on.
17. John Afoa: Didn't do anything wrong when he came on for his short period of time.
18. Ali Williams: Was O.K. Good to see him on the bench rather than starting.
19. Victor Vito: Thought he looked quite impressive when he came on. Still would like to see him either do more good runs or more work at the breakdown because he's in an uncomfortable middle ground.
20. Jimmy Cowan: His passing was as good as it was last game...never thought I'd say this, but Ellis for the bench. Where the **** it Mathewson!
21. Aaron Cruden: He looked alright, but my problem with him is that he's not really creating things. He's trying to run himself into holes, but he's not setting up others in set piece plays.
22. Isaia Toeava: Was pretty quiet. Would have liked to have seen him create a bit more.

My overall opinion of the game was that the All Blacks played like England. Uncreative and sloppy. Why did we not run deeper? They were always going to have a tight defense and running players flat and using mid field crashes was poor. If we played a slightly more three dimensional I wouldn't be so worried, but we just looked flat and uncreative. I think we'll do better with Kahui and Dagg in the team, but I'm still fairly nervous after this game.

 

[Garra de Puma]

First of all congratulations to the Kiwi Nation... great win and deserve to be in the semifinals.

In second place, the ref was more rigorous with the the pumas than with the all blacks. For example Mcaw should have gotten a Pumas jersey because he was placed on the wrong side of the ruck during all the game. Although he was never penalized!!!

However this is not a complaint, this are the rules of the game and the world cup is taking place in NZ!

I am proud of the heart and the courage of the Pumas, and the fact that an amateur player scored a try to the All Blacks silencing the stadium for a while and conjuring up ghosts of black men themselves and the audience. The sound of silence bewildered and it was amazing, at least for us!!

Even with our best players injured, we were at the height of circumstance and that fills me with pride!

Pumas Thanks! Thanks for so much heart and guts!

Luckily we have been confirmed as participants in the 4 nations tournament and from then on will improve by having an annual competition that shall give our players more flight.

Vamos Pumas Carajo!!!!

 

[Tricia McMillan]

Now that I'm awake the morning after, one thing I'd just like to say, is that Argentina played very well. Really made us work for it. Looking forward to having them in the Four Nations next year.

 

[lance2010]

Nice win for A'Bs.Argentina turned up for a tough match,Great to see the A'Bs playing Finals type of rugby going for the 3 points at every chance.Aussie/AB's should be Epic.

 

[ari_ale]

the ref was more rigorous with the the pumas than with the all blacks. For example Mcaw should have gotten a Pumas jersey because he was placed on the wrong side of the ruck during all the game. Although he was never penalized!!!

I agree with that, I can not understand as not to be penalized.

Argentina played well, but we should have attacked.

Argentina's future will be bright with 4 nations.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Let it go mate it's pretty easy to see what he meant; we didn't seem to be as up for it as we have been in past games. I'm sure they were interested, but they didn't start the game as intensely as they have in past games.

Thanks mate- thats exactly what I was meaning.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I have to say there is too much AB's bagging going on. I actually think we looked good, there were lots of half breaks etc...just because SBW or Nonu didn't run through every takle doesn't mean they were crap, it just means the Pumas tackled like there was no tomorrow. unfortunately for them all that work showed in the last fifteen when things started to open

less AB bagging and more Puma praising I say!

Also, im gutted, picked all four winners, just got some margins wrong

 

[Darwin]

Wow that game was tense for 60-odd mins! The AB's deserved to win, but they certainly didn't make it easy for themselves (though Argentina does deserve a lot of credit for their strong defense). I actually felt the score fairly reflected the game - the AB's dominated territory and possession for much of the game, and they had a number of other try scoring chances throughout the game that they missed by a matter of centimeters.

The AB's scrum was strong (as usual), and I was very happy with the AB's lineout. The AB's lineout has been an issue in previous years, but has been outstanding this tournament. The AB's won all of their own ball, and managed to steal a number of Argentina's lineouts (Sam Whitelock was very impressive here). I thought Brad Thorn had a strong game, which was good to see as he has been pretty quiet this year. Kaino was again impressive (though perhaps not as impressive as he was in the 4 previous games), while McCaw and Read both played ok, but are certainly both not at their best (both missed tackles in the lead up to Argentina's try too).

I'm really glad to see that people in this forum have picked up the slowness of Weepu's delivery - I ended up yelling at the TV as I was so frustrated at his habit of continually slowing the game down. The commentators continually praised him for the way he controlled the game, but when you have a 3 on 1 overlap outwide, and the opposition defenders are still retreating into position GET THE BALL OUT WIDE IMMEDIATELY! His goal-kicking was brilliant though, and his box-kicking was generally pretty accurate (though I think he did put one out on the full). I would certainly start him versus Australia, but he really just needs to pass the ball out immediately at times (one of the few things that Andy Ellis does well). Slade looked to be struggling (even before he injured his groin), and his groin injury doesn't look good. Cruden was ok when he came on - he wasn't a lot better than Slade, but he did enough to convince me he will do a good enough job if required. Whoever plays 10 doesn't actually need to do a lot though, they just need to distribute the ball well to the backs - anything else they can add is a bonus.

Nonu was a bit mixed - he looked dangerous, but he did make a few errors. Smith did a good job (as usual), while SBW did a pretty good job on the wing too (though I'd certainly like to have Kahui back next week). Muliaina was very quiet in what looks to be his final AB's game, as his injury was apparently quite serious. Toeava was pretty quiet himself, but he does have a wonderful long pass (of either hand), which did create a few opportunities out wide. Hopefully Israel Dagg is back next week, as they could really use his spark from the back. Cory Jane was man of the match for me. He was almost impossible to bring down, and he must have the best left-hand fend in world rugby.

 

[Larksea]

If you look at the stats from South Africa v Australia earlier today, you would say Australia got a hiding.... but they won.

It was a very brave and committed effort from Los Pumas; a very good effort from them. The scoreline flattered the All Blacks somewhat.

This game shows that the Pumas will be no walkover when they join the Four Nations next year. They WILL be hard to beat in BA.

33-10 doesn't tell the true story of this match, two tries to one does.

I strongly disagree, 33-10 and in particular the 7 penalties weepu kicked clearly show that Argentina deliberately infringed when they were under pressure in their own half. infact they did everything they could to slow the ball down all over the field. Which was the main reason the game was close for so long but they paid for it in the end.

 

[Dizzy]

Well, my thoughts:

11. Sonny Bill Williams: Is not a wing. If you had a genuine speedster on the left wing, we would have finish off some of those oppertunities. He's a good player, but not sold at all with him on the wing, and for all the talk about his defense, he got caught napping for Argentina's try.
.

I don't know whether you caught this or not, but in SBW's defense, that burst came from near halfway where two of our stronger defenders were both exposed in defense[Read and McCaw]. SBW actually helped save the try being scored by the player who got stopped before the line, the only thing he did wrong was that he stood upright, he needed to be low to the ground and even then, it was great thinking from the Argentinian for going quickly and not letting SBW regather. Full credit to the Argentinians rather than onus on SBW.

First of all congratulations to the Kiwi Nation... great win and deserve to be in the semifinals.

In second place, the ref was more rigorous with the the pumas than with the all blacks. For example Mcaw should have gotten a Pumas jersey because he was placed on the wrong side of the ruck during all the game. Although he was never penalized!!!

Vamos Pumas Carajo!!!!

This frustrates me the most. It was Nigel Owens after all... But, man, the referees are just killing me with the way they interpret the breakdown rules.

 

[Rhyer]

Pocock did what McCaw does and is labelled man of the match. McCaw does it and is labelled a cheat. Love the hypocrites.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pocock did what McCaw does and is labelled man of the match. McCaw does it and is labelled a cheat. Love the hypocrites.

Haha, have you not read the Aus vs SA match thread? Some people are ready to lynch Pocock

 

[Dizzy]

I'm not being a hypocrite. I've got a bone to pick with referees that's all for their judgement calls at the breakdown[or lack of], because this wasn't the Aus/SA thread I never brought up Pocock. But his problem is ONE, when he can't get to the ball, he just wraps those beasty arms around the body of the player and makes out he's trying to steal the ball but he's just killing it and TWO, when he's going for the ball, a ruck has already been formed and the referee's don't do anything.

 

[Larksea]

I enjoyed the game, better hot out for the AB's than a 30-40 point thrashing would have been. Some areas need to be worked on but at the same time others were impressive - like the scrum and lineout, also kick offs were better.

I don't understand all the -ve comments about the AB's game or comments that the scoreline was flattering. The 20 odd points off weepu's boot clearly showed that Argentina were infringing at the breakdown when they were under pressure and the All Blacks quite rightly took the points on offer each time as they should have.

As far as the All Blacks go the talking points have to be Slade & Cruden plus the injuries.

Slade was ok again but ok at best really sums up his performances so far and it's maybe not good enough. His passing was a bit off and it just looks like the pressure gets to him a bit. Cruden looked a bit better and seemed to improve as the game went on though he did miss a couple of chances and lost the ball once or twice at least he was involved and he looked nippy on attack. Strange it was almost kinda the exact opposite of Crudens first test start he had against Australia where he picked up an injury early and had a very average game before Slade came on and steadied the ship.

I think the fact Henry praised Cruden after the game for his efforts says a lot and we can maybe expect Cruden to start next week. People will be a bit worried with memories of that last test against Aussie he had. But he is a better player now and his kicking game in particular has improved - I think it's safe to assume now that Cruden is better kicking for goal at least. But Kicking around the field is going to be critical against Australia, late in the game in particular.

Weepu seemed to run the game well and his goal kicking was superb. I said last week the Key for the AB's is keeping weepu on the park as long as they can or until the game in safe and I think that proved to be correct. Cowan came on and made a couple nice little plays but also threw a couple of nasty passes.

Nonu & Smith were fairly quiet, victims of the busy Argie defense and Slow All Black Ball. But nonu at least managed one great run and looked dangerous.

mills was ok till he went off which was a same. I was also ****** off sky didn't show his presentation for his 100th test. Gutted he's injured, It didn't look good and I wouldn't be surprised if he's now out of the tournament because of it which means we really need Dagg back and Toeava becomes quite important.

Sunny Bill did a good job, little nervous under the high ball but no real mistakes and he had a few nice runs.

Jane was superb, he really came to the party and was impressive in a game that didn't suit anyone outside 9-10. How he made ~50-60m through the Argie forwards from a kickoff is beyond belief...

The forward effort was impressive overall, sets in particular were very impressive. Lineout and Scrum dominated. Kaino just continued on his good work, McCaw was busy and didn't seem too hindered by his foot problem. Sam Whitelock was brilliant in the lineout. And Brad thorn Answered my call last week by getting involved as a ball carrier - honestly I think I saw more ball in hand from brad in this game than I've seen every other game this year combined. Front row was solid all round, Even Afoa had his way in the scrum when he came on. Read looked better again this week though still not quite his best - needs to keep improving. Vito did ok too, much rather have him or Boric on the bench ahead of Thomson.

 

[no-1-rugby-fan]

New Zealand were not great against Argentina, some late tries at the end flattered them. The fact two forwards scored says it all.

 

[Isurus]

I'm not being a hypocrite. I've got a bone to pick with referees that's all for their judgement calls at the breakdown[or lack of], because this wasn't the Aus/SA thread I never brought up Pocock. But his problem is ONE, when he can't get to the ball, he just wraps those beasty arms around the body of the player and makes out he's trying to steal the ball but he's just killing it and TWO, when he's going for the ball, a ruck has already been formed and the referee's don't do anything.

Well this is the artistry and science of playing at 7, right? These guys have to make these split second decisions and it is their job to tread that fine line between what is legal and what is not. That is their job. Let me say that again - it is their job to play in that legal/illegal grey area. That is why it really ****** me off when the likes of McCaw and Pocock are labelled cheats for doing exactly what they are employed to do. Whether what Pocock was doing yesterday was legal or not is not on him, he did his job brilliantly. If there is any criticism it has to be levelled at the ref, not at the guy with the 7 on his back.

 

[Isurus]

New Zealand were not great against Argentina, some late tries at the end flattered them. The fact two forwards scored says it all.

They weren't great but I was pretty happy with what the boys did. The Argentinians clearly had a plan to kill the ball when the All Blacks were in the red zone and so we were able to consistently pick up three points. If anything the scoreboard flattered them in that first half.

Was a bad defensive lapse by Read for the Argentinian try with McCaw and Williams also not covering themselves in glory. There were also a couple of other breaks through defensive lapses but they were cleared up by good cover defense. Perhaps a little creaky at times but we only gave up ten points so not too unhappy.

But I have to give credit to Argentina though. They were very very good at slowing our ball down and disrupting everything we were trying to do. There was so much time spent with Weepu standing over slow ball at the back of a breakdown but that's really only a reflection of the good job Argentina did in that area. But we dealt with it well. We continued to dominate possession and territory and pick up the points when they were available - exactly what we should expect from the boys.

A solid 7/10 for the overall performance. Room for improvement but perfect preparation for the semi-final next weekend.

 

[Dizzy]

Well this is the artistry and science of playing at 7, right? These guys have to make these split second decisions and it is their job to tread that fine line between what is legal and what is not. That is their job. Let me say that again - it is their job to play in that legal/illegal grey area. That is why it really ****** me off when the likes of McCaw and Pocock are labelled cheats for doing exactly what they are employed to do. Whether what Pocock was doing yesterday was legal or not is not on him, he did his job brilliantly. If there is any criticism it has to be levelled at the ref, not at the guy with the 7 on his back.

I think you missed the entire point of my post. You pretty much just said what I said in your own words.

 

[Isurus]

I think you missed the entire point of my post. You pretty much just said what I said in your own words.

Was just looking for a place to make my point. Your post probably wasn't the most appropriate one to respond to - my Bad.

Just sick of the "cheat" label being thrown around so liberally (not by you) like it means nothing. If someone is going to call someone a cheat then they better have some serious evidence. And I don't mean ****ing hands in a goddamned ruck.