[2015 TRC] South Africa v Argentina in Durban (08/08/2015)

[TRF_heineken]

Kick off: 17:05 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
Venue: Durban, South Africa

Referee: Romain Poite

AR1: JP Doyle

AR2: Marius Mitrea

TMO: Ben Skeen​

Teams

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Jean de Villiers (c), 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Schalk Burger, 7 Marcell Coetzee, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Vincent Koch, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Replacements: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Marcel van der Merwe, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Siya Kolisi, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 Lwazi Mvovo

Argentina: 15-Joaquín Tuculet, 14-Horacio Agulla, 13-Marcelo Bosch, 12-Jerónimo De la Fuente, 11-Juan Imhoff, 10-Juan Martín Hernández, 9-Tomas Cubelli, 8-Leonardo Senatore, 7-Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6-Pablo Matera, 5-Tomás Lavanini, 4-Guido Petti Pagadizaba, 3-Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 2-Agustín Creevy (captain), 1-Marcos Ayerza

Substitutes: 16-Julián Montoya, 17-Lucas Noguera, 18-Matías Díaz, 19-Matías Alemanno, 20-Tomás Lezana, 21-Martín Landajo, 22-Santiago González Iglesias, 23-Lucas González Amorosino

 

[The Jones Boy]

The Bokkies have been pipped by Aussie away and beaten at the last post by the AB's at home in their hallowed halls of the high veldt.
Sincerely, I wouldn't want to be Argentinian in this upcoming game.
I can see a lot of pain and humiliation coming for Argentina here.
The Boks are angry, they know they are better than their results and they will be looking for a cricket score and a crushing forward display.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The Bokkies have been pipped by Aussie away and beaten at the last post by the AB's at home in their hallowed halls of the high veldt.
Sincerely, I wouldn't want to be Argentinian in this upcoming game.
I can see a lot of pain and humiliation coming for Argentina here.
The Boks are angry, they know they are better than their results and they will be looking for a cricket score and a crushing forward display.

The thing though is we might have a very different-looking team take the field now that 'the pressure is off' since we don't have a shot at the RC ***le anymore and Meyer wants to give everyone a run which I feel contributed to our two losses in a large way; our bench coming on taking away / shifting momentum though probably it's just as much the opposition stepping it up. I wouldn't really know.

Anyway.. I expect a win but I'd be surprised if we see big scores unless Meyer plays his best avaiable team which I doubt.

It's so frsutrating the SA coaches' hang up with the RWC so that we tend to undervalue other games which make up 95% of the tests being played.

Also, congrats and welcome to staff @TRF_heineken. Thanks fo putting up the matchday thread!

 

[The Jones Boy]

Thats a fair call Stormer.
My RWC seedings are as follows;
Boks are no.1
Poms are no.2
AB's no.3
Aussie (if their pack comes to the party are no.4
Ireland at no.5
This Bok team oozes experience and class that will get it's chance to show itself at the RWC

 

[TRF_heineken]

The thing though is we might have a very different-looking team take the field now that 'the pressure is off' since we don't have a shot at the RC ***le anymore and Meyer wants to give everyone a run which I feel contributed to our two losses in a large way; our bench coming on taking away / shifting momentum though probably it's just as much the opposition stepping it up. I wouldn't really know.

Anyway.. I expect a win but I'd be surprised if we see big scores unless Meyer plays his best avaiable team which I doubt.

It's so frsutrating the SA coaches' hang up with the RWC so that we tend to undervalue other games which make up 95% of the tests being played.

Also, congrats and welcome to staff @TRF_heineken. Thanks fo putting up the matchday thread!

Thanx Buddy!! I hope it's to your satisfaction.

Yeah, I think this game might be closer than most think, actually I think both the games vs. ARG will be close affairs.

And yeah, our team will look different. We are all waiting in anticipation of what the Doc's verdicts are of the guys who were on rehab-programmes. The Doc said that we will make an assessment later today.

We could see the return of Jean De Villiers, Fourie Du Preez, Pieter-Steph Du Toit and Willem Alberts.

We will also maybe hear what is the progress on Duane Vermeulen and Coenie Oosthuizen and their Neck injuries.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Again will depend how SA can handle the scrum last year SA really struggled there.

Argentina won't win either way but a dominate Argentina scrum could turn it into a 6-10 point difference compared to a 20-30 point game difference.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Again will depend how SA can handle the scrum last year SA really struggled there.

Argentina won't win either way but a dominate Argentina scrum could turn it into a 6-10 point difference compared to a 20-30 point game difference.

True, but to our defense, the scrum is one area we have had significant improvement than last year. The inclusion of guys like Heinke v/d Merwe, Vincent Koch and Frans Malherbe has been a benefit in getting our scrums better than they were.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

True, but to our defense, the scrum is one area we have had significant improvement than last year. The inclusion of guys like Heinke v/d Merwe, Vincent Koch and Frans Malherbe has been a benefit in getting our scrums better than they were.

That and Ayerza got away with a lot of coming in on the angle. From their match later that year against NZ referees have been more vigilant and Arg hasn't been as dominant in the scrum since.

What I'm hoping for:

1 Kitshoff still out? Otherwise Beast.
2 Du Plessis and can we dump Strauss from the bench to shake him up? He has been unimpressive all year for both Bulls and Bokke.
3 Who isn't injured? Koch
4 Etzebeth
5 De Jager - I'll bring PSdT in early(ish) though to give him opportunity to get back up to speed.
6 Louw - while Coetzee is still out
7 Alberts
8 Burger - while Vermeulen is still out
9 Du Preez - lets drop Pienaar, please. His service has somewhat improved and he is slightly quicker to the breakdown but could still be faster but still adds nothing extra for us. I'd rather bring in FdP to see what he stil has and continue with Pollard to give the combination time. Reinach off the bench.
10 Pollard
11 Habana
12 De Allende
13 Kriel
14 Hendricks should do alright vs Argentina but I am unconvinced about him in knock out rugby..
15 Le Roux

Scanning over our options going forward I am quite excited TBH. I still feel we'll lack experience if we go with form or visa versa going into this year's RWC but I can see an impressive team developing here. Other than in our back three. That has been a real weak area for us at both SR and test level.

Where are our options out wide? The fact that Habana (at 50% of 2007 Habana) and Le Roux have no real competition for their jerseys and then we only really have Hendricks and JPP as options for 14... ouch. Seeing as we have so many options in the centers ATM I wouldn't mind seeing a center on the 14 wing for us TBH. At least for this year and the RWC. Going forward I think (or at least hope) our decision-makers are starting to wake up to the fact that we need some power on the wings. At least Allister Coetzee has said so and Meyer has made a few noises as well but the options are just very limited ATM as the feeders from schools teams too SR teams tend to lean towards pure pace rather than what I can only call power (MASS x speed rather than just speed). With the political setup in SA I doubt we'll see this come to realization though.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

A nice short injury update from sport24.co.za:

Meanwhile, other players with injury concerns - Vincent Koch, Warren Whiteley, Trevor Nyakane and Marcell Coetzee - all have an outside chance of playing this weekend.
Players likely to return from injury include Pieter-Steph du Toit, Jean de Villiers, Fourie du Preez, Jan Serfontein, Stephen Kitshoff and Willem Alberts.
Victor Matfield, JP Pietersen, Jannie du Plessis, Francois Louw, Duane Vermeulen, Coenie Oosthuizen and Frans Steyn were all watching from the stands on Monday as the Boks started their build-up and won't feature on Saturday.

Other than that they report Pollard is still suffering concussion symptons. I was assuming he'd be alright as he passed the on-field protocols during the match. I have to say I'd not play him against Arg then if I were Meyer. Also didn't know Louw was out injured but luckily it seems Coetzee might be ready. What makes me most happy though is that Kitshoff might make his debut and against Argentina nogal! That and PSdT who's been out for an absolute age it seems.

 

[TRF_heineken]

A nice short injury update from sport24.co.za:



Other than that they report Pollard is still suffering concussion symptons. I was assuming he'd be alright as he passed the on-field protocols during the match. I have to say I'd not play him against Arg then if I were Meyer. Also didn't know Louw was out injured but luckily it seems Coetzee might be ready. What makes me most happy though is that Kitshoff might make his debut and against Argentina nogal! That and PSdT who's been out for an absolute age it seems.

Yeah it looks good for us looking towards the WC.

I'd not play Pollard at all this week. give him a well deserved break. Let Lambie start and put Morne on the bench.

As for tighthead prop, we still have Marcell van der Merwe who can start instead of Jannie.

 

[Mcfadden]

Again will depend how SA can handle the scrum last year SA really struggled there.

Argentina won't win either way but a dominate Argentina scrum could turn it into a 6-10 point difference compared to a 20-30 point game difference.

Yeah, I wasn't that bowled over with Argentina's scrum when I saw their match against the All Blacks. I know it's one area they have traditionally been strong in, but it wasn't that outrageously dominant. As far as the stats go, Argentina have had the worst scrum of the competition so far and South Africa the second best. Also, as far as I know, Ramiro Herrera is out with injury.

 

[Kiwi_]

Argentina are quite poor, the Bok will win this comfortably.

 

[SelimNiai]

Argentina will wear this shirt for the game

Lush

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

VICTOR MATFIELD"His hamstring strain is doing really well but he won't be ready for the first game (against Argentina)."
JP PIETERSEN
"Has also got a hamstring (strain) and he may be ready for the second game depending on how he progresses this week."
JANNIE DU PLESSIS
"Jannie, as we reported, has a medial knee ligament strain. He won't be available this weekend either."
FRANCOIS LOUW
"Has got a rotator cuff tear ... he injured his shoulder and will miss both Argentinean games but he should be fit for the World Cup."
DUANE VERMEULEN, COENIE OOSTHUIZEN AND FRANS STEYN"Duane is doing well with his neck, Coenie with his neck and Frans Steyn with his pec strain … so those are our long term (injuries) at the moment."
VINCENT KOCH, WARREN WHITELEY AND TREVOR NYAKANE
We have quite a few guys who we need to make calls on during the week. Vincent Koch with a rib cartilage problem and Warren Whiteley with a rib cartilage problem. Trevor Nyakane has tweaked his back a little bit."
MARCEL COETZEE
"Had that knock to his knee. He's trained really well, he trained today (Monday) … we'll see how he gets through the training and make a decision for the weekend but he's looking good for the weekend."
PIETER-STEPH DU TOIT
"Pieter-Steph played his first game for the Sharks on the weekend and the feedback is that it went really well well. We're happy with him at the moment. He's had a full training session so if he gets through the week he will be available for the weekend."
JEAN DE VILLIERS
"The same thing. Really happy with what he's done in terms of game time and if he gets through the training he will be available the weekend."
HANDRE POLLARD
"Handre passed the head injury assessment during the game and immediately after, but then two days later there were signs of what we called delayed concussion. So we will only know later in the week, after further tests are carried out, whether he will be available for selection."
FOURIE DU PREEZ
"A similair boat. He had a full training session this week. But the test for him will be how he responds to the training load but he may potentially be ready."
JAN SERFONETIN
"Will also be ready coming back from that knee and that hip problem."
STEVEN KITSHOFF
"Had that medial knee ligament strain. Did a full session today so also looking good for the weekend."
WILLEM ALBERTS
"He's actually looking good, we've been building up Willem for the last couple of weeks. The plan is if he gets through a good training week this week is to potentially be available for the weekend."
FRANS MALHERBE
"He injured his hip. He's got a little tear in the cartilage in his hip and a little bit of a bone bruise. For him ... we ran him today (Monday) and we'll know tomorrow (Tuesday) if he's available for the weekend."

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Bok-injuries-The-good-and-the-bad-20150803

Add a hooker and our 'injury XV' would probably boss our 100% XV :lol::wah:

 

[The Jones Boy]

Why is no one talking about Broussow?

 

[SomeOke]

Why is no one talking about Broussow?

To be perfectly honest I don't think Brussow offers as much as our other options. As far as I can remember he made one or two steals, and gave away one penalty. Someone like Marcell Coetzee easily makes a steal or two every game while offering just as much defensively, and more in terms of ball carrying. The days when HB made 4 or 5 steals a game are over, and they have been since the rules around the breakdown were changed (the daylight rule).
Therefore there is no reason to include him, Flouw and Vermulen are good enough fetchers in there own right without being one-dimensional, if you add BdP and Coetzee to the mix the breakdown is more than covered without including him.
I'm glad he's back, we may need him as an option, but I don't think he's first choice.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Why is no one talking about Broussow?

The less we talk about him, the bigger his impact.

To be perfectly honest I don't think Brussow offers as much as our other options. As far as I can remember he made one or two steals, and gave away one penalty. Someone like Marcell Coetzee easily makes a steal or two every game while offering just as much defensively, and more in terms of ball carrying. The days when HB made 4 or 5 steals a game are over, and they have been since the rules around the breakdown were changed (the daylight rule).
Therefore there is no reason to include him, Flouw and Vermulen are good enough fetchers in there own right without being one-dimensional, if you add BdP and Coetzee to the mix the breakdown is more than covered without including him.
I'm glad he's back, we may need him as an option, but I don't think he's first choice.

I disagree, Brussouw had a massive impact against the All Blacks. He might not have won as many turnovers, but he did enough to spoil quick ball for them. He is also very good with ball in hand, and has offloading skills. For me, he is currently in better form than Francois Louw.

In other News, Frans Steyn has been released from the Bok-group. His brother committed suicide yesterday.

 

[Peat]

Grim. Sorry to hear that.

Also, that may just be the worst injury list going into a World Cup ever.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Grim. Sorry to hear that.

Also, that may just be the worst injury list going into a World Cup ever.

yeah, but the good news is that most of them will be ready by the time the world cup starts. And our first game is against Japan, so it would be the perfect game to give most of the guys a loosener.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Why is no one talking about Broussow?

To be perfectly honest I don't think Brussow offers as much as our other options. As far as I can remember he made one or two steals, and gave away one penalty. Someone like Marcell Coetzee easily makes a steal or two every game while offering just as much defensively, and more in terms of ball carrying. The days when HB made 4 or 5 steals a game are over, and they have been since the rules around the breakdown were changed (the daylight rule).
Therefore there is no reason to include him, Flouw and Vermulen are good enough fetchers in there own right without being one-dimensional, if you add BdP and Coetzee to the mix the breakdown is more than covered without including him.
I'm glad he's back, we may need him as an option, but I don't think he's first choice.

The less we talk about him, the bigger his impact.

I disagree, Brussouw had a massive impact against the All Blacks. He might not have won as many turnovers, but he did enough to spoil quick ball for them. He is also very good with ball in hand, and has offloading skills. For me, he is currently in better form than Francois Louw.

IMO Coetzee>Louw>Brussow even if the margins are tiny. Brussow is probably the most 'pure open side' but IMO not enough so to get in ahead of the others but maybe its unfair to judge on 1 test. The real question IMO should be why is no-one talking about Jaco Kriel? Of our 'open sides' he has been in absolutely the most stand-out sensational dominating form topping both forward and back-associated stats since from 2014's Currie Cup. And in this case the stats don't lie. The only reason he isn't getting a look in is because he hasn't got a cap next to his name yet but Jesse Kriel also was capless before the RC and he has been our best player over the two games IMO. I feel Super Rugby is of a high enough standard that if you shine week in week out in the tournament you'll probably do alright at test level.

Also, that may just be the worst injury list going into a World Cup ever.

It's hella long but Meyer has been dealing with long injury lists for some time now. And like Heineken mentioned most of them are in line for a RWC spot. I think Vermeulen is the only 1st choice player who is touch and go looking ahead to the RWC but of course players coming back from lng term injury are always more likely to pick up ****les/aggrevate existing ones again.

With that siad, in some cases though (as seems to have been the case for the Bokke for a good 6 years now) injury has opened the door up to the less capped but in form players who have taken their chances; this time round it's been De Allende, Jesse Kriel and Lood de Jager who have proved the fans who calling for JdV and Matfield to be dropped right.

In other cases though it has really stimmied our development. With Pieter-Steph du Toit I was sure he'd have cemented his spot by now and I am convinced he would've were it not for a horror run with injuries. Same with Malherbe and Kitshoff.

We've also been missing the likes of Willem Alberts and Fourie du Preez for so long they're almost not a factor any more. I suppose that's rugby.

In other News, Frans Steyn has been released from the Bok-group. His brother committed suicide yesterday.

Grim. Sorry to hear that.

That's a tough one indeed. Kinda puts things in perspective again. My thoughts go out to Frans and the rest of his family.