[2015 TRC] South Africa v Argentina in Durban (08/08/2015)

[Horacito]

Still, Hernández played a better match than Sánchez previous two... together.

He gave us the fourth try, the second try was all his doing (he escaped and recieved the high tackle from Burger, giving us the advantage) and his field kicking was as solid as allways.

Seriously not the best match to criticize him pal.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Where is heineken?
Where are the regular saffer posters?
Conspicuous by their absence.

Monday was a public holiday with good weather. Not one to spend behind a laptop.

Okay, onto the game I want to congratulate Argentina here again but this time without reservation.

I am still of the opninion Poite shouldn't ever ref a pro match again because he has no clue as to a number of the fundementals of the game but that is not the reason we lost as I said elsewhere as well, it just adds to the frustration and TBH I am more upset with the coaching staff as Poite's way of non-refereeing is not an unknown factor. Argentina were just up for this match and took advatage of the ref's 'style' while we were left rattled and floundering.

So much for JdV's expected steadying influence in defense and leadership. I still say taking him in while he is still not 100% was a mistake and sadly, will probably continue too be a mistake as I can't see Meyer dropping him for any reason. DdA/Kriel was one of the very few positives coming out of weeks 1 and 2. So much for that. Pienaar just doesn't add anything still.

It seems we still have the issue of not knowing what to do when opposition packs get parity or even dominance. But its difficult to complain overly much as we are spread thin there due to injury.

Here's hoping the guys can buck up for what will probably be a very determined Pumas side at home.


Has anybody picked up the reports that 5 black Bok players have apparently approached Cosatu with a complaint that the Bok team was all white at some point furing the weekend and they want to make a fuss.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Where is heineken?
Where are the regular saffer posters?
Conspicuous by their absence.

Here I am.

Let me start off with Poite and his refereeing squad. I thought they were terrible.

1. The first try by Argentina had 2 forward passes that went unseen.
2. The Scrums, I thought he was very one-eyed with his interpretation at the scrums. Video footage even supports that.
3. Cobus Reinach's try. He gave us the penalty, saw Cobus tap and go, and then reward the try. Only having the TMO to say that it wasn't on the line. Why award it in the first place when he, as the referee at first instance didn't see anything wrong with it??
4. The Paul Honiss Replication -try. It was Ireland all over again. 4 medics on the field, Poite with his back to the Springboks the whole time. There was even a medic on the field for Argentine right next to JMH when he took the tap. Poite even gave JDV the permission to talk to his guys. And then they score in the corner. It leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.
5. Habana's try. Talk about double standards. Poite yet again awards the try, Lambie is ready to take the kick, and then all of a sudden the TMO says he wants to have another look. Why did the TMO not go and have another look at the first Argentine try?? Why was only this try up for debate and not every other try??
6. The Offside line was non-existant in this match.

Ugh, it's irritating and frustrating to keep on ranting about the referee, but honestly, this will continue to happen, and we won't shut up about it until the correct steps are taken to make the game more enjoyable to watch where officiating will not be a factor.

/Rant over regarding Poite.

On the Springboks. We were terrible. Schalk Burger was poor for me, he made so many hospital passes that put us under tremendous pressure. Ruan Pienaar had an off game, his first of the year, and he gave our backs very poor delivery. Handre Pollard should not be too badly judged, he had very little first phase ball, and couldn't do much with it when he got it. I thought he did try to go alone himself too often.

The scrums were yet again a mess.

Congrats Argentina on your maiden win against South Africa. They played smarter than us and made less mistakes.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Here I am.

Let me start off with Poite and his refereeing squad. I thought they were terrible.

1. The first try by Argentina had 2 forward passes that went unseen.
2. The Scrums, I thought he was very one-eyed with his interpretation at the scrums. Video footage even supports that.
3. Cobus Reinach's try. He gave us the penalty, saw Cobus tap and go, and then reward the try. Only having the TMO to say that it wasn't on the line. Why award it in the first place when he, as the referee at first instance didn't see anything wrong with it??
4. The Paul Honiss Replication -try. It was Ireland all over again. 4 medics on the field, Poite with his back to the Springboks the whole time. There was even a medic on the field for Argentine right next to JMH when he took the tap. Poite even gave JDV the permission to talk to his guys. And then they score in the corner. It leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.
5. Habana's try. Talk about double standards. Poite yet again awards the try, Lambie is ready to take the kick, and then all of a sudden the TMO says he wants to have another look. Why did the TMO not go and have another look at the first Argentine try?? Why was only this try up for debate and not every other try??
6. The Offside line was non-existant in this match.

Ugh, it's irritating and frustrating to keep on ranting about the referee, but honestly, this will continue to happen, and we won't shut up about it until the correct steps are taken to make the game more enjoyable to watch where officiating will not be a factor.

/Rant over regarding Poite.

On the Springboks. We were terrible. Schalk Burger was poor for me, he made so many hospital passes that put us under tremendous pressure. Ruan Pienaar had an off game, his first of the year, and he gave our backs very poor delivery. Handre Pollard should not be too badly judged, he had very little first phase ball, and couldn't do much with it when he got it. I thought he did try to go alone himself too often.

The scrums were yet again a mess.

Congrats Argentina on your maiden win against South Africa. They played smarter than us and made less mistakes.

You missed the biggest one IMO; have a look at the game and focus on Argentine players going off their feet to seal their own ball and steal ours while not suporting their own weight. But we don't get the same laissez faire treatment at ruck time with Beast penalized for seasling when we were on the attack in their 22 and we get told many time to let go of the ball on the deck.

It just means one team can't get any momentum going at all.

... I reread this here and I don't wnat it to come across as excuses though I suppose it invariably is. Please read it as criticism of Poite and nothing further. I see Argentina as full value for their win I really do. They can only play whats in front of them and did so brilliantly. My frustration is with the ref's 'style' of refereeing, inconsistency in doing so and our inability to adapt and numerous unfrced errors none of which come from Argentina other than the pressure they put on us if that makes any sense.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You missed the biggest one IMO; have a look at the game and focus on Argentine players going off their feet to seal their own ball and steal ours while not suporting their own weight. But we don't get the same laissez faire treatment at ruck time with Beast penalized for seasling when we were on the attack in their 22 and we get told many time to let go of the ball on the deck.

It just means one team can't get any momentum going at all.

... I reread this here and I don't wnat it to come across as excuses though I suppose it invariably is. Please read it as criticism of Poite and nothing further. I see Argentina as full value for their win I really do. They can only play whats in front of them and did so brilliantly. My frustration is with the ref's 'style' of refereeing, inconsistency in doing so and our inability to adapt and numerous unfrced errors none of which come from Argentina other than the pressure they put on us if that makes any sense.

There was an inevitability for ARG to win. They have been knocking on the door the past few years, specifically against us, and they nearly did last year if it wasn't for Morne Steyn kicking a goal in injury time.

And we had 2 tough losses the previous 2 games too. Actually we have now lost our last 4 international games in a row. Some experiments work, and some didn't. Every year we have that odd off game, and I hope that it was just this. Argentina came out firing in that opening 30 minutes and scored the points while we were missing tackles and making mistakes. They got a big enough lead to just weather the storm in the second half. Something both teams can take back home in regard to preparation for the World Cup.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The time has come for the Springbok management to stop tinkering and to pick the best 15.
Thats what Aussie have been doing and its working wonders for them

 

[nickdnz]

The time has come for the Springbok management to stop tinkering and to pick the best 15.
Thats what Aussie have been doing and its working wonders for them

Is it?

South Africa--->Argentina---->NZ

1. Slipper--->Slipper--->Sio
2. Moore--->Moore--->Moore
3. Kepu--->Homes--->Kepu
4. Skelton--->Skelton---Mumm
5. Simmons--->Simmons--->Horwill
6. Fardy--->Fardy--->Fardy
7. Hooper--->Pocock--->Hooper
8. Higginbotham--->McCalman--->Pocock
9. Genia--->Phipps--->Phipps
10. Cooper--->Foley--->Foley
11. Horne--->Tomane--->Mitchell
12. Giteau--->Toomua--->Giteau
13. Kuridrani--->Kuridrani--->Kuridrani
14. Ashley-Cooper--->Ashley-Cooper--->Ashley-Cooper
15. Folau--->Folau--->Folau

By in large that looks like a team which has changed a fair amount over this Rugby Championship. Don't know if I would put their success down to consistent selections.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The time has come for the Springbok management to stop tinkering and to pick the best 15.
Thats what Aussie have been doing and its working wonders for them

Why??

Every Saffa knew long before the RC even started that HM will use it to experiment for the WC. It's the only way to know who to pick and who is on form or not.

I'm not bothered by the losses, as it doesn't mean that much to me, sure I'd like us to win every game and lift the trophy, but the focus is on the World Cup. Injuries and other factors has made the life for HM very hard, but his head and heart is at the right place and I have confidence in him.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Every South African knew Meyer was going to tinker but we all don't like it. That said I do trust Meyer for the most part (relative to PdV) and most of his tinkering has paid off. So fair enough. That said I do disagree with the view that places the RWC ***le above every other test match. The reason being we went through some hell with PdV for the same reason and ran up against Lawrence in the QF and that was that- all that suffering and carrying guys way past it along for the sake of having a load of caps in the line-up and everything undone by a one-off ref performance from hell which is a distinct probability in any RWC knock out game. Rather try and win every test you get and build a culture of winning and that might just get you the RWC ***le in any case.

So while I understand Meyer has been dealt a ****ty hand WRT injuries making him unable to field anything other than 60% of our probable 'best XV' I am against the way he uses the bench for the only reason to give everyone a run and also hw he has shoved our best performing player in Kriel aside for De Villiers just like that to see how he goes where the likelier outcome was a poorer performance than keeping Kriel at 13, JdV on the bench (only as injury cover) and bring in Mapoe as an example.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Is Mapoe likely to come in now JDV is injured again?

I've barely seen him at all - would be potentially be a better pick than Kriel at OC?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Is Mapoe likely to come in now JDV is injured again?

I've barely seen him at all - would be potentially be a better pick than Kriel at OC?

Maybe, depends on what Meyer wants to do. Maybe with the Race-issue now showing up, Mapoe might get into contention (he seems like the type who would run to Cosatu).

I'm wondering if Meyer will give Lambie a start, and whether it will be at 10 or 15, as both Willie and Pollard has been off their game a bit, even though I think they are both the first choice players in their position. Would Kriel get a run at 15? Or would HM give De Allende/Kriel combo another game to try and gel even more?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Is Mapoe likely to come in now JDV is injured again?

I've barely seen him at all - would be potentially be a better pick than Kriel at OC?

I hope so. Mapoe would've been my pick at 13 before the 1st two tests. Its hard to look past Kriel at 13 for me as is though but I certainly see Mapoe as a good chance on either the wing with Kriel coming in at 13 or on the bench to cover 13/wing where Kriel can cover 15.

The sad thing is Mapoe would be a legitimate pick in my eyes whereas I think the casual fan might now see him as a political inclusion after the most recent and well covered racial flaring point in SA rugby where 5 black players have made formal complaints to the overarching SA trade union of being marginalized based on their race and an actual political heavyweight rather than our hotairballoon sports minister has called for instant transformation.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe, depends on what Meyer wants to do. Maybe with the Race-issue now showing up, Mapoe might get into contention (he seems like the type who would run to Cosatu).

I'm wondering if Meyer will give Lambie a start, and whether it will be at 10 or 15, as both Willie and Pollard has been off their game a bit, even though I think they are both the first choice players in their position. Would Kriel get a run at 15? Or would HM give De Allende/Kriel combo another game to try and gel even more?

I don't know. he has always cme across as a team player, hard worker and all-round solid person to me. He did drop the Cheetahs early in his carreer but I really don't blame him as they were trying to exploit him IMO the type of money he was on and them trying to force him to carry on without any increase. Miners earn more than he did at the time and they were trying to keep him too it based on nothing more than semantics at the time.

 

[austingtir]

Why??

Every Saffa knew long before the RC even started that HM will use it to experiment for the WC. It's the only way to know who to pick and who is on form or not.

I'm not bothered by the losses, as it doesn't mean that much to me, sure I'd like us to win every game and lift the trophy, but the focus is on the World Cup. Injuries and other factors has made the life for HM very hard, but his head and heart is at the right place and I have confidence in him.

I agree I saw all I needed to see in the loss to NZ that SA will be a huge force at the WC. I think they've just been given a few lessons on what not to do in these games.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I agree I saw all I needed to see in the loss to NZ that SA will be a huge force at the WC. I think they've just been given a few lessons on what not to do in these games.

Exactly!

If you win each and every game, then you won't always see areas to improve on. The loss NZ suffered on the weekend, just as SA did, I think will be way more beneficial to the 2 losing teams than Australia. NZ and SA know what mistakes were made, and can now use it to their advantage going into the WC. Whereas, for Australia, I think they have maybe shot themselves in the foot. They are peaking too early, they are in a tougher pool than SA and NZ, and they won every game so far, so they might not know where their mistakes might have been.

 

[Mcfadden]

Agree with the sentiment happening here. Walloping a team by 40 points is great fun, but it hasn't lead to World Cups in the past. You don't actually learn much, unless the other team sneaks in a couple of tries which they shouldn't have. I think 2011 kind of stuck a rocket up some of those senior All Blacks and they were hacked off and motivated by the loses in Super Rugby and Tri Nations. It was just what the Doctor ordered basically. Every win brings you closer to your next loss, so Australia can have the trophy. (not to diminish their accomplishment. they deserved their win last week. Easily.)

Also, most people in the know realize that Hansen and co have put a lot of game strategies to bed for the World Cup, so what you're seeing out on the park isn't necessarily the entire bag of tricks either.

Certain individuals need to step up and improve in very specific areas. But it's positive that this gets realized now. Not in the middle of a semi-final.

 

[Jaguares]

Exactly!

If you win each and every game, then you won't always see areas to improve on. The loss NZ suffered on the weekend, just as SA did, I think will be way more beneficial to the 2 losing teams than Australia. NZ and SA know what mistakes were made, and can now use it to their advantage going into the WC. Whereas, for Australia, I think they have maybe shot themselves in the foot. They are peaking too early, they are in a tougher pool than SA and NZ, and they won every game so far, so they might not know where their mistakes might have been.

Or maybe they have suffered those losses in the last Spring Tour and have fixed their mistakes. Cof cof Mario Ledesma as scrum coach.

They got rid of useless scrummagers as Ben Alexander and Benn Robinson and chose best scrummagers like Sio and Holmes.

Too early? Just 2 games more for OZ (NZ and USA) and the WC begins. After the worst Spring Tour in years, Aussies needed these wins to gain confidence.