England 2023/24

[LIONSxv]

How's he England qualified? Must be parents/grandparents.

Also surprised he's name dropped Haffar. He's played 2 prem games this season, both off the bench.

Father I think, I like what I've seen of him but surely we are stacked in the back row without capping him


Telegraph article was directly quoting SB. I know Haffer has been highly rated for some time. Some very early comparisons to Ox Niche. Although he needs more 1st team game time

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Sanderson implied today that Warr has been told he's not on England's radar


Scab nosed prick

Any journalist right now:

Warr needs to become first choice over Quirke before staking his England claim.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Any journalist right now:

Warr needs to become first choice over Quirke before staking his England claim.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Haffar has looked good when he's come on and won two scrum pens against sale but I've not seen enough of him this season to really say if he's an international quality.

The big thing for me is that he's not nailed down a starting spot over Waller yet. Surely that dictates if he gets an England call up or not.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Watch them get some dodgy cut throat guys in now and bankrupt the sport

Lololol, even dodgier than I could have ever expected

Makes sense why they binned off their union for encouraging them to take a temporary paycut with Genge and Watson leading the group - they've been outspoken about how players should be getting bigger salaries despite clubs folding left right and centre around them

 

[Which Tyler]

Lunatics running the asylum.

Being intransigent and self-entitled, doesn't make you a good negotiator

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As if rugby needed this when things were already going to the pits...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'd trust George and Itoje, it's not like they have previous for cheating with money…..oh wait yeah they do!

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Telegraph claiming that Borthwick has spoken to feyi-waboso. Also name dropped ton of other players Roots, Slade and Fisalau from Exeter. Freeman, Obano, Haffar, Brantingham and Baxter others he has been impressed with

Which ultimately means he has been talking to Young's and May to rethink retirement and will call up both Vunipolas

I don't know why Borthwick has bothered speaking to Feyi-waboso because if he does play for England he wont get passed the ball and will be expected to chase kicks the whole game.

 

[Saintjay]

Lololol, even dodgier than I could have ever expected

Makes sense why they binned off their union for encouraging them to take a temporary paycut with Genge and Watson leading the group - they've been outspoken about how players should be getting bigger salaries despite clubs folding left right and centre around them

Genge has had issues with the the players association for god knows how long. Not a surprise he's leading the charge.

 

[MarkyH]

I'm all for unions for any workforce. But I'm really not sure on one run by current players who are paid handsomely by the ERFU. I worry it could strengthen players position in the squad and with management when some might not deserve to be there. It just looks like a 'jobs for the boys' club.

It would be much more inclusive if they had previous England players on board, maybe one that also included players from the women's team. And maybe representatives from age grade rugby too. As well as clubs.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Sounds like Guy Pepper is on the England radar, I reckon might play in the A game

 

[LIONSxv]

Sounds like Guy Pepper is on the England radar, I reckon might play in the A game

I can see him being right up Borthwicks street. An open side that plays like a blindside and is tall enough to be a genuine line out option
Cracking prospect, but shouldn't be ahead of B Curry, Pearson, Earl etc. Eng A looks nailed on for him though

 

[LIONSxv]

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Okay so it's nearly time for everyone to start throwing out their England and England A squads. I was starting to put mine together when I kinda realised that there have been so many names thrown about that I was constantly forgetting and remembering players. So I've gone through the prem squad lists and put together this list of players who I think are reasonably in contention for either squad. I'm sure I've glossed over some options so please do let me know anyone you think I've left out and I'll edit accordingly.

Players who I'm not sure will be injured/eligible
Players who I'm pretty certain will be injured

LP: Fin BAXTER, Phil BRANTINGHAM, Ellis GENGE, Tarek HAFFAR, Emmanuel IYOGUN, Joe MARLER, Simon MCINTYRE, Beno OBANO, Val RAPAVA-RUSKIN, Bevan RODD, Mako VUNIPOLA, Tom WEST

HK: Jamie BLAMIRE, Luke COWAN-DICKIE, Theo DAN, Nic DOLLY, Dan FROST, Jamie GEORGE, Curtis LANGDON, George MCGUIGAN, Gabriel OGHRE, Sam RILEY, Archie VANES, Jack WALKER

TP: Dan COLE, Trevor DAVISON, James HARPER, Joe HEYES, Asher OPOKU-FORDJOUR, Ehren PAINTER, Patrick SCHICKERLING, Nick SCHONERT, Kyle SINCKLER, Will STUART

LK: Ben BAMBER, Ollie CHESSUM, Freddie CLARKE, Alex COLES, Charlie EWELS, George HAMMOND, Jonny HILL, Nick ISIEKWE, Maro ITOJE, Joe LAUNCHBURY, George MARTIN, Alexander MOON, Chunya MUNGA, Elliott STOOKE, Hugh TIZARD, Rus TUIMA

FL: Ben CURRY, Tom CURRY, Ben EARL, Will EVANS, Fitz HARDING, Ted HILL, Emeka Ilione, Jack KENNINGHAM, Lewis LUDLAM, Tom PEARSON, Guy PEPPER, Miles REID, Matt ROGERSON, Ethan ROOTS, Sam UNDERHILL

N8: Alfie BARBEARY, Calum CHICK, Chandler CUNNINGHAM-SOUTH, Alex DOMBRANDT, Greg FISILAU, Zach MERCER, Billy VUNIPOLA, Tom WILLIS

SH: Danny CARE, Alex MITCHELL, Raffi QUIRKE, Harry RANDALL, Ben SPENCER, Jack VAN POORTVLIET, Gus WARR

FH: Charlie ATKINSON, Orlando BAILEY, George FORD, Louie JOHNSON, Jamie SHILLCOCK, Fin SMITH, Marcus SMITH

IC: Seb ATKINSON, Will BUTT, Olly HARTLEY, Dan KELLY, Max OJOMOH, Manu TUILAGI

OC: Elliot DALY, Fraser DINGWALL, Will JOSEPH, Ollie LAWRENCE, Alex LOZOWSKI, Luke NORTHMORE, Guy PORTER, Henry SLADE

WG: Oscar BEARD, Joe COKANASIGA, Immanuel FEYI-WABOSO, Tommy FREEMAN, Ollie HASSELL-COLLINS, Gabriel IBITOYE, Louis LYNAGH, Caden MURLEY, Adam RADWAN, Arron REED, Tom ROEBUCK, Ollie SLEIGHTHOLME, Iwan STEPHENS, Ollie THORLEY, Anthony WATSON

FB: Joe CARPENTER, Nick DAVID, George FURBANK, Josh HODGE, Max MALINS, Freddie STEWARD, Tom WYATT

 

[TRF_Olyy]

McIntyre's out injured atm (not due back until after next round of Europe), and Nic Dolly had neck surgery a week or two ago so I'd cross those out too

 

[LIONSxv]

Okay so it's nearly time for everyone to start throwing out their England and England A squads. I was starting to put mine together when I kinda realised that there have been so many names thrown about that I was constantly forgetting and remembering players. So I've gone through the prem squad lists and put together this list of players who I think are reasonably in contention for either squad. I'm sure I've glossed over some options so please do let me know anyone you think I've left out and I'll edit accordingly.

Players who I'm not sure will be injured/eligible
Players who I'm pretty certain will be injured

LP: Fin BAXTER, Phil BRANTINGHAM, Ellis GENGE, Tarek HAFFAR, Emmanuel IYOGUN, Joe MARLER, Simon MCINTYRE, Beno OBANO, Val RAPAVA-RUSKIN, Bevan RODD, Mako VUNIPOLA, Tom WEST

HK: Jamie BLAMIRE, Luke COWAN-DICKIE, Theo DAN, Nic DOLLY, Dan FROST, Jamie GEORGE, Curtis LANGDON, George MCGUIGAN, Gabriel OGHRE, Sam RILEY, Archie VANES, Jack WALKER

TP: Dan COLE, Trevor DAVISON, James HARPER, Joe HEYES, Asher OPOKU-FORDJOUR, Ehren PAINTER, Patrick SCHICKERLING, Nick SCHONERT, Kyle SINCKLER, Will STUART

LK: Ben BAMBER, Ollie CHESSUM, Freddie CLARKE, Alex COLES, Charlie EWELS, George HAMMOND, John HAWKINS, Jonny HILL, Nick ISIEKWE, Maro ITOJE, Joe LAUNCHBURY, George MARTIN, Alexander MOON, Chunya MUNGA, Elliott STOOKE, Hugh TIZARD, Rus TUIMA

FL: Ben CURRY, Tom CURRY, Ben EARL, Will EVANS, Fitz HARDING, Ted HILL, Jack KENNINGHAM, Lewis LUDLAM, Tom PEARSON, Guy PEPPER, Miles REID, Matt ROGERSON, Ethan ROOTS, Sam UNDERHILL

N8: Alfie BARBEARY, Calum CHICK, Chandler CUNNINGHAM-SOUTH, Alex DOMBRANDT, Greg FISILAU, Zach MERCER, Billy VUNIPOLA, Tom WILLIS

SH: Danny CARE, Alex MITCHELL, Raffi QUIRKE, Harry RANDALL, Ben SPENCER, Jack VAN POORTVLIET, Gus WARR

FH: Charlie ATKINSON, Orlando BAILEY, George FORD, Louie JOHNSON, Jamie SHILLCOCK, Fin SMITH, Marcus SMITH

IC: Seb ATKINSON, Will BUTT, Olly HARTLEY, Dan KELLY, Max OJOMOH, Manu TUILAGI

OC: Elliot DALY, Fraser DINGWALL, Will JOSEPH, Ollie LAWRENCE, Alex LOZOWSKI, Luke NORTHMORE, Guy PORTER, Henry SLADE

WG: Oscar BEARD, Joe COKANASIGA, Immanuel FEYI-WABOSO, Tommy FREEMAN, Ollie HASSELL-COLLINS, Gabriel IBITOYE, Louis LYNAGH, Caden MURLEY, Adam RADWAN, Arron REED, Tom ROEBUCK, Ollie SLEIGHTHOLME, Iwan STEPHENS, Ollie THORLEY, Anthony WATSON

FB: Joe CARPENTER, Nick DAVID, George FURBANK, Josh HODGE, Max MALINS, Freddie STEWARD, Tom WYATT

Good list. What it also demonstrates is clear areas of strength such lock, back row, fly half and 3/4s.
Front three( whilst acknowledging the potential in the younger lads) and inside centre look worrying.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think that pretty much everyone would agree that the main thing we want to see this Six Nations is to see the team develop a new, more expansive game plan and really create a positive identity as a squad. With that in mind I'd use this 1st year of the RWC cycle (or at the very least the 1st 6N) selecting the very best players available to us to implement that game plan. I know that it's tempting to want wholesale change but to implement a whole new, unknown game plan at the same time as introducing a whole new, unknown squad just seems to me like a recipe for disaster. To me it makes sense to use experienced players to refine the game plan and then use the suebsequent 3 years to introduce the new players to an already established game plan.

Therefore my 36-man squad would be:
LP: Marler, Obano, Genge - Marler is an experienced head and still our best scrummager. He'll provide the best platform for (hopefully) an exciting backline to play off of. Obano is the guy I'd like to see take the reins at loosehead over the next 4 years. Genge is also there.

HK: George, Dan, Cowan-Dickie - George and LCD pretty much same justification as Marler. Dan the guy I'd like to see take the reins over the next 4 years.

TP: Cole, Stuart, Sinckler - comfortably the least inspiring selections of the squad. Cole selected for the same reasons as Marler. Stuart and Sinckler because who else? Schonert could be worth a go but beyond that I think the likes of Painter, Heyes and Opoku-Fordjour are better placed in the A squad for now.

LK: Itoje, Martin, Chessum, Coles - Itoje, Martin and Chessum pick themselves. Coles playing great rugby right now.

FL: Earl, Underhill, Ludlam, Curry, Pearson - again I feel this is an area that more or less picks itself.

N8: Dombrandt, Mercer - I've been very critical of Dombrandt in the past and I'm still far from convinced by him but his current form can't be ignored. This really is last chance saloon for him though in my eyes. Barbeary better off in the A squad for now. Mercer deserves a shot.

SH: Spencer, Care, Mitchell - Warr left out because Borthwick has apparently told him he isn't on the England radar so there's not really any point involving him in this. Spencer will be 35 by the next World Cup which is certainly on the older side but still 2 years younger than Care currently is and the same age as Aaron Smith was at the World Cup and he did alright. Care obviously not gonna be around for 2027 but in great form. Mitchell the next best option.

FH: Smith, Smith, Ford - picks itself.

IC: Ojomoh, Kelly - both guys that would be better off in the A squad really but a complete lack of other options means they have to be involved. Atkinson the other real option but Kelly just about edges him for me.

OC: Lawrence, Slade - picks itself, both are in great form. Joseph the main up and comer but I'd much rather see him start for the A team than hold tackle bags for 2 months.

WG: Watson, Freeman, Murley, Radwan - a fit Watson is still a force to be reckoned with. Freeman is just a super classy all rounder who I'm a massive fan of. Murley and Radwan are electric and both deserve a shot at the team. Roebuck unlucky to miss out but would absolutely be my starter for the A team.

FB: Steward, Furbank - I think these 2 more or less pick themselves. Carpenter looks promising but IMO clearly a guy who is best off starting for the A team.

 

[LIONSxv]

I think that pretty much everyone would agree that the main thing we want to see this Six Nations is to see the team develop a new, more expansive game plan and really create a positive identity as a squad. With that in mind I'd use this 1st year of the RWC cycle (or at the very least the 1st 6N) selecting the very best players available to us to implement that game plan. I know that it's tempting to want wholesale change but to implement a whole new, unknown game plan at the same time as introducing a whole new, unknown squad just seems to me like a recipe for disaster. To me it makes sense to use experienced players to refine the game plan and then use the suebsequent 3 years to introduce the new players to an already established game plan.

Therefore my 36-man squad would be:
LP: Marler, Obano, Genge - Marler is an experienced head and still our best scrummager. He'll provide the best platform for (hopefully) and exciting backline to play off of. Obano is the guy I'd like to see take the reins at loosehead over the next 4 years. Genge is also there.

HK: George, Dan, Cowan-Dickie - George and LCD pretty much same justification as Marler. Dan the guy I'd like to see take the reigns over the next 4 years.

TP: Cole, Stuart, Sinckler - comfortably the least inspiring selections of the squad. Cole selected for the same reasons as Marler. Stuart and Sinckler because who else? Schonert could be worth a go but beyond that I think the likes of Painter, Heyes and Opoku-Fordjour are better placed in the A squad for now.

LK: Itoje, Martin, Chessum, Coles - Itoje, Martin and Chessum pick themselves. Coles playing great rugby right now.

FL: Earl, Underhill, Ludlam, Curry, Pearson - again I feel this is an area that more or less picks itself.

N8: Dombrandt, Mercer - I've been very critical of Dombrandt in the past and I'm still far from convinced by him but his current form can't be ignored. This really is last chance saloon for him though in my eyes. Barbeary better off in the A squad for now. Mercer deserves a shot.

SH: Spencer, Care, Mitchell - Warr left out because Borthwick has apparently told him he isn't on the England radar so there's not really any point involving him in this. Spencer will be 35 by the next World Cup which is certainly on the older side but still 2 years younger than Care currently is and the same age as Aaron Smith is currently and he did alright. Care obviously not gonna be around for 2027 but in great form. Mitchell the next best option.

FH: Smith, Smith, Ford - picks itself.

IC: Ojomoh, Kelly - both guys that would be better off in the A squad really but a complete lack of other options means they have to be involved. Atkinson the other real option but Kelly just about edges him for me.

OC: Lawrence, Slade - picks itself, both are in great form. Joseph the main up and comer but I'd much rather see him start for the A team than hold tackle bags for 2 months.

WG: Watson, Freeman, Murley, Radwan - a fit Watson is still a force to be reckoned with. Freeman is just a super classy all rounder who I'm a massive fan of. Murley and Radwan are electric and both deserve a shot at the team. Roebuck unlucky to miss out but would absolutely be my starter for the A team.

FB: Steward, Furbank - I think these 2 more or less pick themselves. Carpenter looks promising but IMO clearly a guy who is best off starting for the A team.

That is pretty much bang on the money. I don't think he will pick Ludlam due to the French move and will need to be consistent due to Willis, Arundel. I would hope Ben Curry is his replacement

I know that Furbank has improved and is playing well in a good saints side. I would sooner bring in a specialist in the area who perhaps has less lapses in them such as Carpenter.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah i think that's very close to what we'll see:

I do think Will Joseph will be involved though, either for Slade or Radwan

I'm not sure Kelly will be - SB wasn't keen over the summer and his form isn't good enough atm that I think it'd change SB's mind (and he's currently playing 13). Maybe Dingwall will get a look in?

I really hope Langdon is there, I'd have him there over LCD (who still looks a half step off the pace and I think would be better served having his minutes managed for the rest of this season then coming back into international contention in the summer)

I would be a little surprised to see Spencer involved just because he hasn't been before and he's been playing really well for literally years - I still think it'll be Randall, who I'm not particularly enthused about at international level (he and Mitchell too similar in strengths and weaknesses)