England 2023/24

[LIONSxv]

ALL teams have some form of kickig and set piece game. Its just adapting it appropriately to the players you have.

If you dont have a strong kicking and set piece game at international level you will struggle.

I agree you need to have at least a par set-piece and kicking game.
The problem with England post WC 19 is that we have attempted to copy the SA DNA that we saw in that WC final. We do not have the players for a slow kick chase, set piece game, maul type game
Looking at the players we have, we should attempt quick ruck speed , moving the ball quickly away from contact

 

[Geordie]

That's not what I said. Kicking is very important but a gameplan build on just kicking and then set pieces needs to have a set of players we don't have. If your only hope of scoring points comes from set pieces then you need strong set pieces.

There is also a massive difference between having a kicking gameplan and just kicking the ball to try and compete. That's not a gameplan, that means you've got no other plans and are just smashing a 50/50 in the air. It's got its place but it's got to be part of a tactic, not the entire tactic.

Look I know that every time someone questions bothers you run to his defence like his PA or something but it's only South Africa that use that style of gameplan and they have a monstrous set of forwards, we don't. It's fair to criticise his tactics so far as they have been poor. If we had a better attack, or any attack we would have been in a WC final.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm glad you can laugh at that as it was meant in jest. I know there will always be those who see the cup half full and the cup half empty.

Just hoping come the 6 nations you are right and I'm wrong.

 

[Geordie]

I'm glad you can laugh at that as it was meant in jest. I know there will always be those who see the cup half full and the cup half empty.

Just hoping come the 6 nations you are right and I'm wrong.

Im not a SB fan, im just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Its more a hope that what i think hes doing is actually what hes doing and that we will start to see a turn around in the attacking aspects aswell.

However I completely agree with much of the criticism..the kicking was awful, aimless and a debacle at times. That needs addressed urgently. The set piece was an improvement but still needs work...and the scrum desperately needs props and in particularly bench players who can match the best teams...as our bench were proven to be way short.

We had zero attack...thats unacceptable...and we all need to see that improving dramatically.

I guess we'll get an idea over the next few months.

 

[Saintjay]

I agree you need to have at least a par set-piece and kicking game.
The problem with England post WC 19 is that we have attempted to copy the SA DNA that we saw in that WC final. We do not have the players for a slow kick chase, set piece game, maul type game
Looking at the players we have, we should attempt quick ruck speed , moving the ball quickly away from contact

Which is great on paper. Yet England have been knocked out of the last two world cups mainly on the scrum that can't compete with SA. I get that many countries are in the same boat, yet If we are going to compete we need to find some decent props and a decent english qualified 12/13. For the next RWC these positions surely have to be a priority.

 

[LIONSxv]

Which is great on paper. Yet England have been knocked out of the last two world cups mainly on the scrum that can't compete with SA. I get that many countries are in the same boat, yet If we are going to compete we need to find some decent props and a decent english qualified 12/13. For the next RWC these positions surely have to be a priority.

Those props don't exist as yet though..we are trying to play a slow kick/chase scrum, line out, maul game without the players...it's folly imo.
Playing more expansive rugby is a pragmatic must for England until such players arrive that we can return to our traditional strengths.
It's not about the aesthetics of the game for me, it's about winning. I'm almost certain that England will nowhere with what's in the prem playing a SA style game

 

[Wasps92]

I'm really against starting Lawrence who's our first choice 13 at 12 and then freeman who should be our first choice 11 at 13. Just silly really.

Why not just go Max O and Ollie L as the 12 and 13. They know each other from club rugby and bath are currently first in the league. Just makes sense.

Because it's England and we are seemingly incapable of doing the simple but effective common sense option of playing players in their natural positions.

 

[Wasps92]

They're so frigging shameless. I feel like they genuinely think 'why develop our own when we can just feed off of other unions' efforts'.

Does my head in mate. Really shouldn't be allowed. If I was Scottish it would do my head in seeing my national team full of English and South Africans.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Alex Coles re-signs for Saints.
Wonder if it might mean England will look at him? Was talk of SRU trying to pressure him to come up north.

Got some good size about him and pretty mobile, sort of fits the Chessum style.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I like him as a big 6 but not really as a lock (atm, some more bulk could change that)
Was thinking on the weekend that him moving to backrow and Saints signing a big brute tighthead lock with the Ludlam (and/or Lawes) money would take Saints pack to the next level

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I like him as a big 6 but not really as a lock (atm, some more bulk could change that)
Was thinking on the weekend that him moving to backrow and Saints signing a big brute tighthead lock with the Ludlam (and/or Lawes) money would take Saints pack to the next level

That's what should happen.
Feel that Saints are investing in Moon and Munga though instead.
Can see them getting an 8 I don't know what if Augustus signed a 1 year extension or more.

If Augustus signed a longer one, would be interesting what might happened considering he can play for England in a couple more seasons.

 

[Scotty]

When is the sqiad announced? Is it tomorrow?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I like him as a big 6 but not really as a lock (atm, some more bulk could change that)
Was thinking on the weekend that him moving to backrow and Saints signing a big brute tighthead lock with the Ludlam (and/or Lawes) money would take Saints pack to the next level

He's managed at lock pretty well this season and added to the grit of our pack this season. I don't see him being any less effective at lock than Chessum or Itoje (I'm talking bulk wise). For me he's an England lock but a club level flanker.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Coles would be my 4th choice lock for the squad. Even if he is slightly underpowered for lock at international level (which I'm not totally convinced he is) then I'd still rather pick a player who is playing very well than bring in someone who isn't really putting their hand up (Isiekwe, Tizard, etc.).

 

[BPM]

Loosehead looking a bit dicey for the first couple of rounds … looks like Mako might get a recall with Marler and Genge looking touch and go and Rodd and VRR definitely out. I hope it's a good chance for Obano. But for his injuries, I think he'd have been an established member of the squad by now.

Beyond that, we have Baxter and Brantingham coming through or do we go with guys that could probably do a job for a couple of games like Tom West or Si McIntyre?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England squad unanimously dumping the PRA. Delays in hybrid contracts apparently caused by the players searching for a new agency to represent them.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

https://archive.is/d1vIq

Sounds....dodgy tbh
Dropping your union because you took a paycut during the pandemic when there were no tickets being sold?

Watch them get some dodgy cut throat guys in now and bankrupt the sport

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Coles would be my 4th choice lock for the squad. Even if he is slightly underpowered for lock at international level (which I'm not totally convinced he is) then I'd still rather pick a player who is playing very well than bring in someone who isn't really putting their hand up (Isiekwe, Tizard, etc.).

I get that but if the World Cup taught us one thing it's that you need a properly powered up front 5.

Haven't seen too much of Isiekwe this year bar one game in the flesh when he was excellent. One stat I saw this morning is that he has the 2nd most line out steals in the Prem, only behind McFarland.

I wouldn't be looking at Baxter for LH yet as he's not a first choice for his club. OK, he's got Marler in the way but that should be a minimum requirement.

 

[Geordie]

Loosehead looking a bit dicey for the first couple of rounds … looks like Mako might get a recall with Marler and Genge looking touch and go and Rodd and VRR definitely out. I hope it's a good chance for Obano. But for his injuries, I think he'd have been an established member of the squad by now.

Beyond that, we have Baxter and Brantingham coming through or do we go with guys that could probably do a job for a couple of games like Tom West or Si McIntyre?

He was hugely impressive v Saracens...apparently he'll be a Saracens player next season so a guaranteed automatic pick,