New Zealand vs England (06/07/24)

[Wasps92]

Gutted but proud. There is so much growth ahead for this team.

 

[Dutchgeo88]

Really impressed by England overall. Thought Furbank, CCS and Itoje were very impressive! Curry brought nothing coming of the bench tho, also Smiths missed kicks were costly in the end.

 

[Jimbo]

Really impressed by England overall. Thought Furbank, CCS and Itoje were very impressive! Curry brought nothing coming of the bench tho, also Smiths missed kicks were costly in the end.

Smiths kicks shouldn't be too much of a talking point IMO, if Dmac lands all his and that's the difference fair enough, they both left a fair few out there though so cancels them out to some extent.

 

[Which Tyler]

Felt like the subs came on and played to secure an existing lead, without noticing that NZ were leading.
Underhill off cost us, and to my eyes, didn't look more tired than Earl, whilst Spencer and FSmith seemed to want to add control at the expense of speed and invention (and not particularly succeed at adding the control).

Yes, technically MSmith's missed kicks cost us; but everyone's allowed a dodgy day at the office, and it didn't seem to affect the rest of his game. This is surely the highest pressure/intensity match he's started to date.

 

[BPM]

Gutted but proud. There is so much growth ahead for this team.

I agree. Although I'm more disappointed than 'gutted'. The second half was pretty even but I thought NZ were slightly better in the 1st half so the end result probably reflects that.

I thought 1-1 before the series started but I think our win needed to happen this week. NZ never lose in Auckland and with a win under their belt, I'm more inclined to think it will be 2-0 now.

As long as we keep it similarly tight next week, I'll be OK with that.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I would be tempted to put Roebuck for Freeman and have Freeman on the bench

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I would be tempted to put Roebuck for Freeman and have Freeman on the bench

I'd put him on the bench - Freeman was quiet today but the ball didn't really go his way, and what little he did get he still showed the spark - more than enough credit in the bank to keep the shirt

Roebuck is very different to the other back 3 options, and if we're planning on a kick heavy final 3rd he's the obvious choice to bring on

 

[esoj]

all black lineout bit of a shocker and dmac didn't have a great game either. Was not a pretty win but still a win for the all blacks and a winning start to robertson's reiign.

all blacks will have to improve the lineout and a lot of aimless kicking they did tonight. You can get away with some of that at super rugby level but at international level the top teams punish your mistakes a lot more. I suspect dmac will be at 10 again despite the shocker he had. Robertson knows he can always bring bb on to bring the team home.
I suspect most the same all blacks time next week with changes most likely being at halfback, one of the wings might be swapped out as well and possibly at least one different starting prop.

 

[Wasps92]

Also wanted to praise George Furbank who I thought had his best game for England. What a performance and I think he has nailed down 15 as his shirt now comfortably ahead of Steward. Another player who was given a game then pretty much discarded by Eddie Jones.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Furbank needed the time.
A player not being ready isn't the same as being discarded


Even saints said they needed to bulk up their players to be more dominant at prem level let alone international level.
He has always been skilful but until this season he lacked strength for international 15.

 

[West Country Wail]

Furbank needed the time.
A player not being ready isn't the same as being discarded


Even saints said they needed to bulk up their players to be more dominant at prem level let alone international level.
He has always been skilful but until this season he lacked strength for international 15.

Very true. I'd attribute much of this new positive style to him and I can pinpoint it in history with the moment he took Jame Lowe's clearance and cut a diagonal run.

Gutted about this match, more than I should given the context.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Marcus Smith's missed kicks cost gutsy England a hen's teeth victory in NZ.

That's what the headlines will say. Not the whole story obviously, but not without justification either. Smith's now got a fair bit of experience and a couple of those were eminently getable. If you put yourself forward as main kicker, sometimes you get too much glory, sometimes too many brickbats. His team mates will obviously be supportive, but equally will have expected him to get those. Otherwise he overall probably came out in credit but I understand those for whom the jury remains out.

For the most part the defence looked like it was coming together, the attack shows more ambition but remains a work in progress.

One thing's clear - we look more convincing with the power of Martin, CCS and Underhill.

As feared beforehand, bench didn't really add much.

Front row remains a concern. No problem with Baxter having his head stuck up his backside a couple of times, he did some good stuff too and it's all part of his learning curve. He'll have learnt more in that hour than in a season of Prem rugby.

Quite a bit to be positive about but this was also our chance. NZ were rusty and it was their first game in a new regime. Having had that shakedown they will be better next week at a ground where they just don't lose.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Mental really that it was Baxter's first cap, away in NZ for 60 odd minutes.

Breakdown was maybe an issue but I thought NZ got away with a lot, but then I think a lot of teams do against England which probably means it's our ruck defence or maybe lack of streetwise breakdown cover.

Either way I'm **** faced on lidle strong cider!!

 

[miccloarch]

all black lineout bit of a shocker and dmac didn't have a great game either. Was not a pretty win but still a win for the all blacks and a winning start to robertson's reiign.

all blacks will have to improve the lineout and a lot of aimless kicking they did tonight. You can get away with some of that at super rugby level but at international level the top teams punish your mistakes a lot more. I suspect dmac will be at 10 again despite the shocker he had. Robertson knows he can always bring bb on to bring the team home.
I suspect most the same all blacks time next week with changes most likely being at halfback, one of the wings might be swapped out as well and possibly at least one different starting prop.

Wouldn't say Dmac had a shocker. His kicking wasn't great but otherwise he was okay. Competent decision making under pressure, never panicked.

Set pieces were a tie: lineout was complete rubbish but scrum was dominant.

Biggest concern: our defensive and especially offensive structures looked really confused and shaky at times but that should get better as the season goes along and they figure out how they want to play in different contexts.

All in all an okay-ish performance but great to get the Razor era off to a winning start.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Also wanted to praise George Furbank who I thought had his best game for England. What a performance and I think he has nailed down 15 as his shirt now comfortably ahead of Steward. Another player who was given a game then pretty much discarded by Eddie Jones.

To be fair in those 2 games Furbank played against France he was awful. But yes if you are going to throw a player in then you need to stick with him for a bit.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

To be fair in those 2 games Furbank played against France he was awful.

That's not correct.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Marcus Smith's missed kicks cost gutsy England a hen's teeth victory in NZ.

That's what the headlines will say. Not the whole story obviously, but not without justification either. Smith's now got a fair bit of experience and a couple of those were eminently getable. If you put yourself forward as main kicker, sometimes you get too much glory, sometimes too many brickbats. His team mates will obviously be supportive, but equally will have expected him to get those. Otherwise he overall probably came out in credit but I understand those for whom the jury remains out.

For the most part the defence looked like it was coming together, the attack shows more ambition but remains a work in progress.

One thing's clear - we look more convincing with the power of Martin, CCS and Underhill.

As feared beforehand, bench didn't really add much.

Front row remains a concern. No problem with Baxter having his head stuck up his backside a couple of times, he did some good stuff too and it's all part of his learning curve. He'll have learnt more in that hour than in a season of Prem rugby.

Quite a bit to be positive about but this was also our chance. NZ were rusty and it was their first game in a new regime. Having had that shakedown they will be better next week at a ground where they just don't lose.

I'm not sure we will be better next week actually. If TJ is out, we can't win with the same game plan relying on quick ball for our attack. Christie is poor and ratima doesn't have a particularly quick clearance either - he plays for the chiefs who rely on depth rather than quick recycling flat play that the all blacks are continuing to use. If tuipolutu is out with concussion that will also make a big difference in terms of our physical ability.

all black lineout bit of a shocker and dmac didn't have a great game either. Was not a pretty win but still a win for the all blacks and a winning start to robertson's reiign.

all blacks will have to improve the lineout and a lot of aimless kicking they did tonight. You can get away with some of that at super rugby level but at international level the top teams punish your mistakes a lot more. I suspect dmac will be at 10 again despite the shocker he had. Robertson knows he can always bring bb on to bring the team home.
I suspect most the same all blacks time next week with changes most likely being at halfback, one of the wings might be swapped out as well and possibly at least one different starting prop.

i thought dmac was our best player, absolutely amazing passes that no one else in NZ can do were the key to being able to play as flat as the coaches were asking the team to play, plus his subtle deceptions to help get his passes around the rush defence we're awesome. And Let's not forget how brilliant he was under the high ball.

 

[Zed]

I thought England were the better team. They just need to stop panicking and actually hold on to the ball. Every time they got into the AB's 22 they would have 3 or 4 phases, not score so would panic and chip or grubber the ball. All they had to do was keep the ball, build up the phases and gaps would eventually appear. I remember one Bleidsoe cup game, the commentators were counting the phases the ABs had made, it was something ridiculous like 30. They weren't making much ground, but were gradually wearing the Wallabies down and eventually scored. England also need to cut out most of their box kicks, pretty much ineffective and just gave away possession. They should have won that.

 

[esoj]

I'm not sure we will be better next week actually. If TJ is out, we can't win with the same game plan relying on quick ball for our attack. Christie is poor and ratima doesn't have a particularly quick clearance either - he plays for the chiefs who rely on depth rather than quick recycling flat play that the all blacks are continuing to use. If tuipolutu is out with concussion that will also make a big difference in terms of our physical ability.

i thought dmac was our best player, absolutely amazing passes that no one else in NZ can do were the key to being able to play as flat as the coaches were asking the team to play, plus his subtle deceptions to help get his passes around the rush defence we're awesome. And Let's not forget how brilliant he was under the high ball.

I thought a lot of his play was pretty poor. He took the wrong option a lot of the times and seemed almost clueless on how to deal with the rush defense. He was guilty of a lot of the aimless kicking the all blacks were doing. As soon as BB came on he was trying different things against the rush defense and was doing more variety than what dmac was. The attack looked noticeably better and sharper with BB on and being first receiver a lot of the time. BB can be suspect with goal kicking too but I don't think he would look out of place if he started next week in the 10 jersey. Dmac will get another chance though with Robertson knowing he can always bring BB on if it doesn't go to plan.

It should be a good game next week and the All Blacks should hopefully step it up after some of them hadn't played for a good month or so.
England we will have learnt from the game as well and I think their scrum will be a lot better next week and I am sure they will be a handful at the lineout again as well.

 

[BPM]

England can and should improve too. It's worth mentioning that the majority of the starting XV have only played once (vs. Japan) since mid May. There is rust to shake off there too.

I fully expect NZ to be better next week and I don't see them losing in Auckland. However, England should take a lot of confidence from yesterday so we should be going in to the game with the belief that we can win.