England 2023/24

[BPM]

Oh I'm not expecting our attack to be anything special. I just want to see some sort of evolution from the extreme lack of ambition in the RWC.

It was hugely embarrassing to see Chile, Uruguay and particularly Portugal displaying vastly superior skill to what we saw from our players.

Still, the enforced changes most likely dictate a change of gameplan. It may not have been Borthwick's plan, but I kind of don't care if it works out.

 

[Jimbo]

So Manu out for the beginning of rhe 6n...

Cue
12 Lawrence
13 Joseph / Freeman

I don't hate that given what we have had in recent times.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Reed, Roebuck, Warr and Finn Smith in line to be called up by Scotland this 6N if they declare for Scotland - Finn Smith apparently been guaranteed a spot in the first choice 23 if he switches

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Reed, Roebuck, Warr and Finn Smith in line to be called up by Scotland this 6N if they declare for Scotland - Finn Smith apparently been guaranteed a spot in the first choice 23 if he switches

I like all of those players, especially Roebuck and Smith, but none of them belong in an England 23 right now. If they want to go to the first team that offers them game time then that's a shame but I'm not sure what there is to be done about it. We shouldn't bend to the wills of players just because they've got other offers (we didn't do it for Arundell).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Warr and Finn Smith should be in our 23, Roebuck in the EPS and Reed in the A game

Tbf Warr and Roebuck have turned down Scotland before, and F.Smith I'd be surprised if he swapped to Scotland as he's clearly on the radar and Farrell is now out and Ford playing like muck

Reed though, I dunno - depends if he's had any talks with SB to know where he stands. Great form this season but wouldn't really have him in any international contention - sniffs of Scotland wanting to lock him in in case he continues to rise - they probably found out he was Scotland qualified before he did, not been any talk of it in the past

 

[Geordie]

Why the AIs? What about the 6n and summer?

Needs time to build. Basics were put in place at the world Cup but still need worked on...then attack added...takes time

 

[Geordie]

Has he?
I mean we have world class opensides who play very well, but crediting SB with that is a bit much - especially after he sandbagged Curry and only let him play his natural game when Underhill was back in the mix

I don't remember our breakdown looking anything special - didn't Fiji give us a hiding there?

Kick chase is the only thing that I think has noticeably improved under SB - and even that was just in one game,
It's disappointing to see our lineout such a mess (even when claiming our own throws it's messy/uncontrolled ball) considering Borthwick is a lineout specialist
Scrum's a mess but that's largely a personnel thing (though it is SB picking the persons)


Realistically he has an insane amount of work to do to gain the trust of any sane supporter after he binned Mercer in favour of Binny. That's unforgivable

Actually...it was quite the contrary...the Fijian breakdown much vaunted as the one of the best at the tournament by many was dismantled by England...

 

[BPM]

Reed, Roebuck, Warr and Finn Smith in line to be called up by Scotland this 6N if they declare for Scotland - Finn Smith apparently been guaranteed a spot in the first choice 23 if he switches

They're so frigging shameless. I feel like they genuinely think 'why develop our own when we can just feed off of other unions' efforts'.

 

[Geordie]

I rate Reed and Roebuck very highly as youngsters...but for wingers we have (in no order) Sleightholme, Murley, Radwan, Cokasaniga, OHC, David, Stephens etc etc...then Freeman and Litchfield if they're wingers or centres...

We need to make sure we have the right ones in the squad....

Fin Smith we need to be set in this 6n....and tied to England.

Warr ..mixed thoughts.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Warr ..mixed thoughts

How come?
Coming back into form nicely after having a week off to catch his breath after playing almost every minute this season

Litchfield

Tom Litchfield? Who has two prem starts?

The disrespect to Roebuck, who has been excellent the last two seasons and only getting better

 

[Geordie]

How come?
Coming back into form nicely after having a week off to catch his breath after playing almost every minute this season


Tom Litchfield? Who has two prem starts? In contention as an international winger?

Mixed thoughts...I like him but is he better than some of the others? Not so sure. I'd go with Mitchell and Spencer..personally I think a fit and firing Quirke is WAY ahead of Warr. Just need to see of he can get fit and on form and actually stay there....

I mention Litchfield as a potential future England player who's made an impact in the prem? Is that wrong?

 

[Geordie]

How come?
Coming back into form nicely after having a week off to catch his breath after playing almost every minute this season


Tom Litchfield? Who has two prem starts?

The disrespect to Roebuck, who has been excellent the last two seasons and only getting better

No disrespect to Roebuck at all....I rate him highly. But you only get a few wingers in a squad...and we have an abundance...we need to get trhe right ones.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mixed thoughts...I like him but is he better than some of the others? Not so sure. I'd go with Mitchell and Spencer..personally I think a fit and firing Quirke is WAY ahead of Warr. Just need to see of he can get fit and on form and actually stay there....

Nah, that's mad, Warr's been so good the last 14 months - he's way ahead of Quirke in every aspect of the game barring ball in hand threat/speed, Raffi was fit for the second half of last season but only started 3 games

we need to get trhe right ones

Considering the game plan SB has it's only Watson who's more suited to it - Roebuck is crazy good at retaining kicks

 

[Geordie]

Nah, that's mad - Warr is way ahead of Quirke in every aspect of the game barring ball in hand threat/speed, Raffi was fit for the second half of last season but only started 3 games


Considering the game plan SB has it's only Watson who's more suited to it - Roebuck is crazy good at retaining kicks

And you know SBs gameplan do you?

 

[Geordie]

Nah, that's mad - Warr is way ahead of Quirke in every aspect of the game barring ball in hand threat/speed, Raffi was fit for the second half of last season but only started 3 games


Considering the game plan SB has it's only Watson who's more suited to it - Roebuck is crazy good at retaining kicks

And at the moment I'd be looking at Mitchell and Spencer for 9 anyway.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And you know SBs gameplan do you?

He was in charge for the 6N and RWC, and also had a similar gameplan at Tigers, so I think it's safe to assume what he wants his sides to play like

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think Warr and Finn Smith should be in our 23, Roebuck in the EPS and Reed in the A game

Meh, I certainly wouldn't be upset to see either of them in there but they wouldn't be my choices either.

Personally at 9 would go with Spencer to start and Mitchell bench to bring some intensity. I have questions about Mitchell as a starter but he's looked good off the bench every time he's done it. Warr would be my 3rd choice though.

Smith again I wouldn't be at all upset to see him but would personally go with 10. M. Smith 22. Ford. I know Ford hasn't been in great form but with a lot of backline turnover I think Ford's experience still being involved will be invaluable. Personally I see Finn as being the long term England 10 rather than Marcus; I'd hope to see us take really good care of his development rather than rushing him in. I guess that is out the window though if he decides to be Scottish.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm a huge Spencer fan and have been calling for him to be involved for literally years but he'll be 36 at the next RWC so not sure I see SB calling him up, especially after ignoring him last season and with Care still knocking about as an old head (if he wants a more experienced player there)

I'd be amazed if it's not Randall (and then JvP straight back in when fit)

 

[Geordie]

He was in charge for the 6N and RWC, and also had a similar gameplan at Tigers, so I think it's safe to assume what he wants his sides to play like

I disregard the 6n and see the world cup as being a specific gameplan.

He didn't get a chance to develop his tigers game fully as he was called up.

But we clearly see things differently. As I've said...after Ais I think that's a fair time to call Where hes at. But most on here have already made their mind up.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Snip

Oof okay yeah that does change my mind a bit actually. Didn't realise Spencer was so old tbh, part of me still kinda sees him as the young Wigglesworth deputy. Thought he was currently like 28-29. In that case I'd for sure be considering Warr to start more.