England 2023/24

[HamJan]

I see that Ruck are announcing Jamie George as the new captain for the 6N. I still see him as our best option as hooker but it's another position where we are really threadbare and need to blood new faces quickly.

Continuing on from the RWC squad, and while we're bringing in new faces, I think SB will go for one of Genge, Itoje and Ford, but as an outside shout I'd like to see Ben Curry given a go.

 

[BPM]

Unpopular opinion here, if you have previously been given opportunity but not grabbed it with both arms you don't deserve any future opportunities, form irrelevant.

I think that's short sighted and doesn't allow for any contextual element.

Players don't pick themselves and let's face it, no-one is going to refuse a call-up. There's always a clamour for exciting young players and that often leads to players getting brought in too soon and being exposed.

IMO, if player is capped before they're truly ready and underperforms, a large part of that responsibility lies with the person picking them. If they subsequently go away and work hard on their deficiencies, I think it would be foolish to permanently exclude them.

Similarly, the newer players introduced in the latter part of Eddie's reign were being brought in to a poor team and a poor environment with morale at rock bottom. That's not exactly setting them up for success. There's an argument to say truly elite players would still shine, but I'd say those would be rare exceptions.

This is by no means a defence of Cokanasiga. He looks sharper and is scoring tries, but I'd argue that's primarily because he's had a decent spell of fitness and has built some form. That's good to see, but at this point I haven't seen any real evidence that he's significantly improved any of the areas that make him a questionable pick at test level.

 

[BPM]

I see that Ruck are announcing Jamie George as the new captain for the 6N. I still see him as our best option as hooker but it's another position where we are really threadbare and need to blood new faces quickly.

Continuing on from the RWC squad, and while we're bringing in new faces, I think SB will go for one of Genge, Itoje and Ford, but as an outside shout I'd like to see Ben Curry given a go.

I take anything on Ruck with a pinch of salt, but personally I'm not against George as skipper on a short term basis. However, I 100% agree that we need to prioritise building some depth at 2.

For that reason, I'd leave out Cowan-Dickie. He's always been injury prone and given the severity of his recent one, I'm not sure we can rely on him being available. Theo Dan has been a good find, but we need at least one more viable alternative.

Walker clearly isn't trusted, so Borthwick either needs to give him the benefit of the doubt or stop picking him in the squad. On this season's form, Langdon should be the go to option - aside from being relatively small, he has a very good all round skill set including excellent darts. Sam Riley could be an outside shot, but I feel that Langdon is much closer to being ready so I'd have Riley in the A squad.

On your other point, Ben Curry has good experience as a captain, is in excellent form and is probably playing his way into the side. I totally get the logic. However, he's also benefiting from injuries to others and unless he can unequivocally cement his place in the squad, I don't think he is a serious option to skipper the side.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I wouldn't be considering B. Curry at all for captaincy tbh. Not because I don't rate him - I do - but because I'd rather he just focus on his own game. He's still very fresh to international rugby; give him time to adjust to the level himself before having to worry about captaincy.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's a bit of a worry that we have nobody that very clearly is above everyone else for captaincy. Someone really should be putting their hand up as a serious contender to lead the team. I think this lack of leadership has been a problem for England in recent years, pretty much since Hartley left.

 

[Geordie]

So Manu out for the beginning of rhe 6n...

Cue
12 Lawrence
13 Joseph / Freeman

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can't see Freeman starting at 13 for England (yet?): he's had single figures of games there in his career

Start him on the wing, pleeeeease

Manu being made of wet tissue does open a door for Slade now

My guess is Lawrence/Daly midfield

 

[BPM]

I'd actually prefer Lawrence and Slade.

 

[Geordie]

I just don't want Lawrence being shunted to 12 just because he can carry hard. He's been hugely impressive at 13 with that bit more space.
Shame Oly Hartley wasn't that bit further down the development track....or Ojomoh hadn't nailed the Bath 12 spot.

 

[Reiser99]

I just don't want Lawrence being shunted to 12 just because he can carry hard. He's been hugely impressive at 13 with that bit more space.
Shame Oly Hartley wasn't that bit further down the development track....or Ojomoh hadn't nailed the Bath 12 spot.

Would be really annoying if he's picked for playing well at 13 and then doesn't replicate it at 12 and gets told he's not good enough.

 

[BPM]

I just don't want Lawrence being shunted to 12 just because he can carry hard. He's been hugely impressive at 13 with that bit more space.
Shame Oly Hartley wasn't that bit further down the development track....or Ojomoh hadn't nailed the Bath 12 spot.

I agree. Although at least if he's paired with Slade they can interchange positions.

 

[Reiser99]

I said rest Manu before his injury was on the news. Honestly, we already know what he can do, we don't know if he'll stay fit and we have good alternatives. Personally, he's a waste of space pick at this stage of the WC cycle and giving others more experience would be of more value to England long term.

 

[higgik]

I said rest Manu before his injury was on the news. Honestly, we already know what he can do, we don't know if he'll stay fit and we have good alternatives. Personally, he's a waste of space pick at this stage of the WC cycle and giving others more experience would be of more value to England long term.

Makes Lawrence a shoe in for 6N.
Think he could become a good 12 as he seems to find good angles, and with Freeman outside there would be 2 big options with pace as well, which would be really difficult to defend.
Just need a 15 to be 2nd playmaker.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A guy with <10 games at 12 at 12
A guy with < 10 games at 13 at 13
Maybe Marcus at 15?
Borthers is a genius!


OL would be my pick at 12, though, tbf - from the existing options that is, anyway.
I want to see Ojomoh there the most, even if he has played at 13 mostly this season (AllRugby says 77% of his starts have been at 12 so that's good enough for me)

 

[West Country Wail]

Should bring some 12s into camp, Ojomoh/Atkinson and see how they fare. OL looks great at 13 but Bath have a pair of excellent play makers. England would not with him at 13. Sorry if I'm doing him a massive disservice.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm really against starting Lawrence who's our first choice 13 at 12 and then freeman who should be our first choice 11 at 13. Just silly really.

Why not just go Max O and Ollie L as the 12 and 13. They know each other from club rugby and bath are currently first in the league. Just makes sense.

 

[West Country Wail]

Crazy talk. England will consist mainly of players from the teams in 5th and 8th place and I won't hear any more on the matter.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So Manu out for the beginning of rhe 6n...

Cue
12 Lawrence
13 Joseph / Freeman

We should really just ditch Manu and be done with it. I've liked him when fit but his injury record has got to be one of the worst in the world and making any sort of plans around him being fit when it's literally 50/50 chance from year to year is just ridiculous. He's getting old too so not like he's one to develop for the future.

OL at 13, not 12 for me. Just play players in their normal positions and perhaps we may see them perform at their best... Kinda tired of England coaches who think they are the dog ******** and know better than the coaches who see these players far far more frequently than they do.

 

[Geordie]

Should bring some 12s into camp, Ojomoh/Atkinson and see how they fare. OL looks great at 13 but Bath have a pair of excellent play makers. England would not with him at 13. Sorry if I'm doing him a massive disservice.

To be fair England should have Mitchell and Ford v Marcus Smith at 9 and 10 and possibly Daly on the wing so should have plenty of playmakers...

 

[Crash Hamster]

Just play players in their normal positions...

Crazy talk.

Daly on the wing...

No thank you.