England 2024/25

[Geordie]

Atkinson and Kelly probably played themselves out of contention this season

Manu, Lawrence are nailed on
One of Ojomoh/Hartley in the squad with the other in the A game (I think Ojomoh probably ahead of Hartley atm)

Kelly yes i agree...but how much is Atkinson hindered by Gloucesters form.

I think l your right for the short term..Manu will be in there...I just hope we can move forward with one or two of these young lads past that.

Smith - Manu - Lawrence for the 6n.

Yes Ojomoh is ahead of Hartley at the moment...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

...but how much is Atkinson hindered by Gloucesters form.

I do kind of agree, and do want him to get a chance, but playing average in a bad team won't put you ahead of someone playing good in a good team, which is what he's competing with

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Try is class, he's really gotta be in the mix for the 6N

 

[Reiser99]

Try is class, he's really gotta be in the mix for the 6N

I think for me I really want to see Borthwick try something different. We've had many of the same names for so long and people just being a given. Don't want a whole new squad, but at least look at something different.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

When is the squad announced?

4th January according to the Times.

 

[Geordie]

4th January according to the Times.

Didnt realise it was that quick....cant see there being time for many big surprises or many changes Outside the enforced ones really.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That seems early, unless they're doing like they did in the RWC and having extended squad training before trimming down?

 

[Geordie]

How do you see the 10 spot going?
Ford is probably SBs favorite...and probably the least in form...behind the Smiths (Marcus and Fin)

I cant see him not picking Ford for the squad though...

 

[Scotty]

Lets say he picks the same as WC sqaud bar injuries/retired/no longer available...what is the list of outs that HAVE to be replaced?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lets say he picks the same as WC sqaud bar injuries/retired/no longer available...what is the list of outs that HAVE to be replaced?

Tom Curry,
Courtney Lawes,
Dave Ribbans,
Jack Willis,
Henry Arundell,
Owen Farrell,
Joe Marchant,
Johnny May,
Ben Youngs

Ben Earl due back in January, not sure whether the early squad announcement tips it one way or the other
Bevan Rodd having minor surgery on his toe, not sure if he's due back before the 6N (guessing not gonna be back by 1st week of Jan so presumably will be missing from the initial squad list at a minimum)

 

[Scotty]

Tom Curry,
Courtney Lawes,
Dave Ribbans,
Jack Willis,
Henry Arundell,
Owen Farrell,
Joe Marchant,
Johnny May,
Ben Youngs

Ben Earl due back in January, not sure whether the early squad announcement tips it one way or the other
Bevan Rodd having minor surgery on his toe, not sure if he's due back before the 6N (guessing not gonna be back by 1st week of Jan so presumably will be missing from the initial squad list at a minimum)

So assuming Earl and Rodd arnt there

Thats
1 prop
1 lock
3 back rows
1 SH
1 FH/IC depending who replaces Faz
1 OC
2 WG/FH

Alot of change at ones especially with the experience thats going on some cases

 

[Geordie]

So assuming Earl and Rodd arnt there

Thats
1 prop
1 lock
3 back rows
1 SH
1 FH/IC depending who replaces Faz
1 OC
2 WG/FH

Alot of change at ones especially with the experience thats going on some cases

So:
Thats
1 prop - Baxter
1 lock - Alex Coles v Isiekwe.....Ewells
3 back rows - Barbeary, Ben Curry, Mercer (Pepper / CCS probably too early)
1 SH - Spencer
1 FH/IC depending who replaces Faz - George Furbank! ( I await the grief ) - Maybe look at Ojomoh as a 12...if we have 3 10s (Marcus and FIn Smith and Ford)
1 OC - Joseph
2 WG/FH - Murley, Roebuck

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Tom Curry,
Courtney Lawes,
Dave Ribbans,
Jack Willis,
Henry Arundell,
Owen Farrell,
Joe Marchant,
Johnny May,
Ben Youngs

Ben Earl due back in January, not sure whether the early squad announcement tips it one way or the other
Bevan Rodd having minor surgery on his toe, not sure if he's due back before the 6N (guessing not gonna be back by 1st week of Jan so presumably will be missing from the initial squad list at a minimum)

But that's only really the start of it, the scope for change over the medium term is huge.

Add in those who Borthwick is noticeably cool on - Malins and Walker with Binny also seemingly fallen into that camp. Picking those would be wasted selections.

Plus Ludlam who's not likely to be around post 6N.

Props are a curious mix of the out of form and the ancient. The changes may not be this time round but they're coming.

Then there's Manu, George, Daly and Care all 31+ whose very best days are behind them and will probably all be phased out over the short to medium term. Heck, even Ford's 30 - not exactly the end of the world but is SB really going to build long term plans around him if Farrell stays away?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

1 FH/IC depending who replaces Faz - George Furbank! ( I await the grief ) - Maybe look at Ojomoh as a 12...if we have 3 10s (Marcus and FIn Smith and Ford)

Surely be Finn Smith for Farrell? He wasn't in the RWC squad so would be a new call up



My guess at SBs picks:

Tom Curry --> Ben Curry
Courtney Lawes --> Tom Pearson
Dave Ribbans --> Huw Tizzard
Jack Willis --> Sam Underhill
Henry Arundell --> Tough to pick, SB likes versatile back 3 players so maybe Freeman
Owen Farrell --> Finn Smith
Joe Marchant --> Will Joseph
Johnny May --> Joe Cokanasiga
Ben Youngs --> Harry Randall

Ben Earl --> In the squad even if not back yet (Barbeary included as injury cover)
Bevan Rodd --> Beno Obano



With all this said: how big are 6N squads? Same size as RWC or bigger? Maybe we can call up a couple more
In my head they're bigger but they upped the size of the RWC squads this year so maybe they're the same now?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

With all this said: how big are 6N squads? Same size as RWC or bigger? Maybe we can call up a couple more
In my head they're bigger but they upped the size of the RWC squads this year so maybe they're the same now?

Think 36 players usually. So only 3 bigger than a RWC squad.

 

[Reiser99]

If 4th Jan is an extended training squad then that would make sense if Borthwick has more freedom to change players. After this he'll be limited in how many he can change each time so if he wants to make changes best to do it now.

 

[Geordie]

If Freeman contuinues as a 13...and performing really well...who do you pick...Lawrence or Freeman? And if you pic Freeman...what do you do with Lawrence? Would you play him at 12?

 

[higgik]

If Freeman contuinues as a 13...and performing really well...who do you pick...Lawrence or Freeman? And if you pic Freeman...what do you do with Lawrence? Would you play him at 12?

Depends on the FH.

 

[Geordie]

Depends on the FH.

And who do you pick there? Ford isnt quite hitting the heights....Marcus and Fin are playing well...

 

[higgik]

And who do you pick there? Ford isnt quite hitting the heights....Marcus and Fin are playing well...

First dibs has to be Marcus, but I think he is still learning game control when under pressure. Going off the cuff can work but often leads to worse issues when the team is under pressure.

I like the way Finn is playing, but would need time in camp to become fully integrated into systems.