• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

Sorry but that's a ridiculous definition of world class

Why? The pinnacle of achievement for any side is to win the World Cup and the label "world class" would be justified.
Has any World Cup winning team in the past not been world class at that moment in time?
 
Why? The pinnacle of achievement for any side is to win the World Cup and the label "world class" would be justified.
Has any World Cup winning team in the past not been world class at that moment in time?

We're talking about players not teams; most teams will never win the world cup...Parisse at his best is still not capable of dragging Italy kicking and screaming to a world cup win. The idea that because of that he could never have been described as world class is bonkers. The idea that only one player per position could be described as world class is equally bonkers. World cup wins are correlation but not causation of being world class.
 
Last edited:
I would say AWJ is past it now (not his fault hes aged) and England's top three locks are beyond him now. Launchburry not on the Lions tour was a massive snub.

There's a difference between past it and not as good as you once were. I think it's slight hyperbole to claim Jones is past it. He is only 32 and Robshaw is 31 but I suppose if you never really 'had it' in the first place you can't really be 'over the hill'. :p
 
We're talking about players not teams; most teams will never win the world cup...Parisse at his best is still not capable of dragging Italy kicking and screaming to a world cup win. The idea that because of that he could never have been described as world class is bonkers. The idea that only one player per position could be described as world class is equally bonkers. World cup wins are correlation but not causation of being world class.

Mrs Quinn, I don't believe anyone is questioning the class of Sergio Parisse and neither is anyone suggesting that only one player per position be descibed as world class.

The All Blacks are currently considered as the best team in the world and set the benchmark for aspiring world class players from other international sides, and comparisons between players will always be made. I mentioned Read and Vunipola, two different players with different qualities who can both be rightly described as world class, and I would suggest those of Vunipola would not necessarily be conducive to what the All Blacks are currently looking for in a no.8.
 
There's a difference between past it and not as good as you once were. I think it's slight hyperbole to claim Jones is past it. He is only 32 and Robshaw is 31 but I suppose if you never really 'had it' in the first place you can't really be 'over the hill'. :p
Fair enough I'll take that more to the point he was a world class player but I wouldn't rate him as such. There are few 30+ year olds that remain world class and when they do they tend to be considered all time greats. I don't think AWJ will ever be in that category of player (no England player in that age category will be as well, the younger players might be someday but its hard to assess).

Robshaw is less world class more very good international class he does a job and it actually does that job very well at internationals but hes not world class and never really has been.
 
LOL no me bad, it was Ringer, I was typing in a complete rush! Wasn't that the incident with Bill Beaumont?
Ringer was sent off for a "mis-timed" tackle on fly half Horton, but there were incidents galore involving loads of players. It was one of the most abrasive England v Wales matches I've ever seen.
 
It absolutely was abrasive. Don't see them like that these days! Until tomorrow hey?
 
It absolutely was abrasive. Don't see them like that these days! Until tomorrow hey?

If they had TMOs then, there'd have been so many yellows and red cards shown that there wouldn't have been many players left on the pitch!

Tomorrow's match ain't going to be for the faint-hearted either and I'm sure there'll be one or two yellow cards, and I've a suspicion that England may sneak it by 3.
 
In what parts of the game do you think Steff Evans is better than Watson? Interested to know.
At international level he hasn't shown himself quite at his Scarlets level yet but being a regular watcher of Scarlets games, Evans is more than just a finisher and a quick stepper, he brings others into the game and is very creative for a winger. I like my wingers having these attributes, I'm very much in the minority I'm sure, but others will prefer different style wingers. Just my opinion though.
 
If they had TMOs then, there'd have been so many yellows and red cards shown that there wouldn't have been many players left on the pitch!

Tomorrow's match ain't going to be for the faint-hearted either and I'm sure there'll be one or two yellow cards, and I've a suspicion that England may sneak it by 3.

Discipline will be key! lol
 
Aha. Mate..... Tadhg Beirne plays for the Scarlets. He's Ireland's only World Class player. Sexton would be lucky to make the bench for the Scarlets. Doesn't have the handling ability or vision.

What I would give for that man to be Welsh!
 
At international level he hasn't shown himself quite at his Scarlets level yet but being a regular watcher of Scarlets games, Evans is more than just a finisher and a quick stepper, he brings others into the game and is very creative for a winger. I like my wingers having these attributes, I'm very much in the minority I'm sure, but others will prefer different style wingers. Just my opinion though.

I think regardless of how you define world class part of the definition that everyone would agree with is consistency. World Class players play consistently well. Steff Evans has had a fantastic season and if he keeps playing this well then he will be called world class. However this early you can't say that yet about in. At the moment I'd have Watson because he has proven himself regularly for England. Having said that if Evans keeps progressing the way he is and keeps performing then in a couple of years I reckon I'd definitely go with him over most other players in the world.
 
Ringer was sent off for a "mis-timed" tackle on fly half Horton, but there were incidents galore involving loads of players. It was one of the most abrasive England v Wales matches I've ever seen.

Exactly. Ringer was sent off in the 13th minute after the ref had issued a final warning! The actual incident was fairly innocuous by the standards of the earlier mayhem.

Wales down to 14 for 67 minutes, outscoring Eng by 2 tries to nil away from home, on the verge of a heroic victory only to be denied by an injury time penalty. It's the hope that kills.
 
What I would give for that man to be Welsh!
Yeah very excited to get our hands on him. Scarlets have done wonders for his workrate and hands to be fair I imagine. Should compensate for the fact he's apparently a bit small for a modern international second row.
 
Works class just means whatever the speaker wants it to mean. You might as well argue over which players are "good" and which are "bad".

For example, "good" players include:
- Mario Itoje
- Marcus Watson
- Dylan Hartley
- Marcus Smith

"Bad" players include:
- Alex Cuthbert
- Dan Biggar
- Alan Wyn Jones
- Sam Warburton

This is basically agreed by everyone
 
Works class just means whatever the speaker wants it to mean. You might as well argue over which players are "good" and which are "bad".

For example, "good" players include:
- Mario Itoje
- Marcus Watson
- Dylan Hartley
- Marcus Smith

"Bad" players include:
- Alex Cuthbert
- Dan Biggar
- Alan Wyn Jones
- Sam Warburton

This is basically agreed by everyone

LOL bit of bias here would suggest there are no bad players in England.
 

Latest posts

Top