[2024 Six Nations] England vs Wales - 10/02/24

[Welsh Exile]

Oh come on, the only reason Gareth Davies and his inferior kicking game was selected V England was because he had to hold Llpyds hand...

Both of them kicked disgracefully, if Lloyd played for Ireland and kicked like that V Italy hed halve been on a train home by the 30th minute.

Lloyd giving away that scrum under his own post, then closing his eyes before diving out of Earl's way isnt a platform issue.

Fact is Wales do not have, and have rarely ever had a big pack, what we breed is hard working dog like forwards who need to be led.

Look at some of the packs Biggar, and Stephen Jones played behind, they werent good players because of the platform, they were good players because they directed play.

I'm not saying Lloyd is expected to do so, but he hasnt got 10 games at qot under his belt, and little timmy at Ystrad Rhonda u12's was screaming 'kick it you twat'

I think you're reaching on the hand holding thing to be honest but neither of us can prove Gatlands rationale either way.

Yeah he made some mistakes, I don't know what else to say, I don't see them as unforgivable ones at all. Jesus, Biggar made some pretty bad ones during the WC. It happens.

Do you really think Lloyd would look the same/worse behind the French/Irish pack? Im just saying I think it's reasonable to say that with quick ball and behind a more functioning unit he'd look better. Totally accept he has to deal with the hand he's been dealt with though and he has to adapt.

 

[dirty harry]

I think you're reaching on the hand holding thing to be honest but neither of us can prove Gatlands rationale either way.

Yeah he made some mistakes, I don't know what else to say, I don't see them as unforgivable ones at all. Jesus, Biggar made some pretty bad ones during the WC. It happens.

Do you really think Lloyd would look the same/worse behind the French/Irish pack? Im just saying I think it's reasonable to say that with quick ball and behind a more functioning unit he'd look better. Totally accept he has to deal with the hand he's been dealt with though and he has to adapt.

I get where your coming from, I believe you are an optimist at heart, but ultimately I dont think lloyd is able to kicked 20m longer by being behind a different pack.

And I get it, a dominant pack can give an armchair ride and make a bad 10 look good, but look at it the reverse, a good 10 can make an average pack look better... look at what Dan parks acheived with both Cardiff and Scotland.

I'll be honest, nothing of what I've seen of Lloyd shows hes a good 10 at club level, let alone international. Same with Costello, hes on par with Sam Davies, has some talent but wont cut it.

I personally think of all available fly half, Owen William's is our best option for a season or two. Now we know why Tomos William's was being tried at 10 recently, th sheer lack of options!

 

[dullonien]

I get where your coming from, I believe you are an optimist at heart, but ultimately I dont think lloyd is able to kicked 20m longer by being behind a different pack.

And I get it, a dominant pack can give an armchair ride and make a bad 10 look good, but look at it the reverse, a good 10 can make an average pack look better... look at what Dan parks acheived with both Cardiff and Scotland.

I'll be honest, nothing of what I've seen of Lloyd shows hes a good 10 at club level, let alone international. Same with Costello, hes on par with Sam Davies, has some talent but wont cut it.

I personally think of all available fly half, Owen William's is our best option for a season or two. Now we know why Tomos William's was being tried at 10 recently, th sheer lack of options!

Owen Williams has been absolutely dire this season. You can't slate Lloyd and Costelow but put Williams forward as an option. Ospreys have looked far better with the rookie Dan Edwards at 10.

I think it's way too soon to discard Lloyd or Costelow, although I think Lloyd has got the higher ceiling. There's more to 10 play than line kicking. No reason we can't get other players to do the kicking e.g. maybe the impressive Winnet can kick for touch like France often do with Ramos.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Also the thing with Owen Williams is that he turns 32 in a few days. Even if he was playing well (which he isn't, Lloyd has looked better than him in a poorer Scarlets side) he's not going to make the next WC so what would be the point in playing him when we could develop a younger player with a higher ceiling?

 

[dirty harry]

Owen Williams has been absolutely dire this season. You can't slate Lloyd and Costelow but put Williams forward as an option. Ospreys have looked far better with the rookie Dan Edwards at 10.

I think it's way too soon to discard Lloyd or Costelow, although I think Lloyd has got the higher ceiling. There's more to 10 play than line kicking. No reason we can't get other players to do the kicking e.g. maybe the impressive Winnet can kick for touch like France often do with Ramos.

I hear what your saying, but I think William's can offer everything the other 3 can, with a bigger boot and act like a man in defence. He isnt a long term option, but he can plug a gap up until the RWC draw next January, and the 2 kids can fight it out at the scarlets to see who wants it more!

I like the look of Edward's and Walsh. Winnet sadly doesnt have a big boot, although it seems better than the 2 Johnabees

 

[dirty harry]

Also the thing with Owen Williams is that he turns 32 in a few days. Even if he was playing well (which he isn't, Lloyd has looked better than him in a poorer Scarlets side) he's not going to make the next WC so what would be the point in playing him when we could develop a younger player with a higher ceiling?

January 26th 2026!!! We need a few results this season, and a big 2025. I dont see us beating Italy with either scarlets boys at 10, then the pressures on for the autumn, we will tumble down the rankings. let's hope we have a smart autumn schedule, otherwise we could go winless in 2024!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

A pale shadow of an England v Wales thread compared to years gone by!

Which, for England fans, summarises the indifference we've felt towards the team for too long. No great results and no performances to signpost a brighter new future. The weather impacted SF was as close as we got.

The team, and some individual players, desperately need a breakout performance. Yes they've got to gel and that takes time etc but they're still less than the sum of their individual parts and something's needed to make the heart sing.

We should be a bit stronger at Murrayfield but can't really see much else than being sent homeward tae think again.

 

[Which Tyler]

As requested (who's volunteering for suicide watch?)
England v Wales m-b-m

England vs Wales - minute-by-minute - RugbyRebels

Obviously, he hasn't got very far yet

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You probably won't remember the french back row player in the 80s, Jean Condom, easy meat for wrapping jokes

I do indeed - very amusing for a young teenager (although being pedantic he was a lock).

A local councillor near us is called Richard Kiss. He uses a shortened form of his first name and you have to be very careful when googling him.