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England 2023/24

Garry Owen said:
Marler, Baxter, Obano
Cole, Davison, Stuart (SB will select Tiger Heyes)
George, Dan, Langdon
Itoje, Martin, Coles, Tuima
Earl, Dombrandt, T Curry, CCS, Underhill, Roots, Ted Hill (SB will go B Curry for Hill)
Mitchell, Spencer, Randall (SB will select Tiger JVP)
Smith, Ford, Smith
Lawrence, Northmore, Slade, Dingwall
Furbank, Steward, IFW, Freeman, Roebuck, Sleightholme
Click to expand...
Picking up on an anti-Tigers bias here, but otherwise, I like that squad with some minor revisions.

JvP would be there on merit - nothing to do with who he plays for. Arguably he's been the best 9 in the last third of the season. I'm ambivalent over Spencer or Randall but would probably favour the latter on age and style (more similar to Mitchell).

I prefer Davison to Heyes, but I'm not going to get too upset about a third choice tighthead who will probably only feature against Japan.

Personally, I wouldn't pick Tom Curry. We all know what he brings but after such a long lay-off and rehab, I'd prefer we give him the summer off and I'd just take Ben instead.
 
BPM said:
Personally, I wouldn't pick Tom Curry. We all know what he brings but after such a long lay-off and rehab, I'd prefer we give him the summer off and I'd just take Ben instead.
Click to expand...
Definitely agree. There is such a thing of doing more harm than good and I don't think the benefits outweigh the negatives.
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
12. Lawrence, Northmore
13. Slade, Freeman
,
Click to expand...
So three 13s and a utility back?

Lawrence is better at 13 but is doing a decent job at 12. Northmore has only played a handful of games for Quins at inside centre and is a test rookie.

13 might be Freeman's best position in the long term but right now he's still learning the role and I''m not sure I'd want him starting there at test level.
 
BPM said:
So three 13s and a utility back?

Lawrence is better at 13 but is doing a decent job at 12. Northmore has only played a handful of games for Quins at inside centre and is a test rookie.

13 might be Freeman's best position in the long term but right now he's still learning the role and I''m not sure I'd want him starting there at test level.
Click to expand...
Dingwall isn't a 12 either…
 
No, but at least he plays there on a semi regular basis. Probably more than Lawrence does.
 
I don't mind taking Northmore as a 12. He's played more games there than at 13 this season and it's where he's likely to play going forward now that Esterhuizen's gone. Think he'll bring more to the international game than Dingwall will too.
 
Who knows? Honestly if I was a young player coming through with even vaguely suitable attributes I would be pushing to play 12.
 
BPM said:
No, but at least he plays there on a semi regular basis. Probably more than Lawrence does.
Click to expand...

I guess my thing with Dingwall is similar to Porter, both work great for what the clubs needed.
But both had chances at international level and found wanting especially in defence, Dingwall was known for being a lynchpin in defence for Saints but International level he was bouncing off one on one tackles that had nothing to do with the line system.

At least Lawrence when he plays 12 for England doesn't look out of place.
 
BPM said:
Who knows? Honestly if I was a young player coming through with even vaguely suitable attributes I would be pushing to play 12.
Click to expand...

I mean we have Hartley, Kelly, Atkinson, Ojomoh.
Kelly finished the season strong at 12, hopefully he's now fully fit and hopefully Ireland don't come calling.
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White at Sale will have some good chances with Manu and James going.

I think Northmore will be Quins 12 next season, unless they announce a new signing. Joesph and Beard covers 13 nicely.

I wouldn't be surprised if end of next season we have at least 6 starting 12's in the league that are English qualified.
Kelly (Leicester
Hartley (Sarries)
Atkinson (Gloucester)
RMW (Sale)
Northmore (Quins)
Williams/BJVR (Bristol)
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
I wouldn't be surprised if end of next season we have at least 6 starting 12's in the league that are English qualified.
Kelly (Leicester
Hartley (Sarries)
Atkinson (Gloucester)
RMW (Sale)
Northmore (Quins)y
Williams/BJVR (Bristol)
Click to expand...

If I'm honest the only one of those that's really caught my eye reasonably regularly is BJVR, and that's mainly down to the mullet.

Maybe I'm being unfair but while the others have had moments none have really consistently screamed international potential. Maybe Kelly to an extent at one point.

Lawrence and Slade finished the 6N and right now it's hard to see past that combo. While Slade's always looked better at 12 on paper than grass, they should at least be able to swap around if the situation demands.
 
Can't see RMW as a starter for Sale any time soon, he's really not very good (currently, anyway) - hoping we send him out on loan to championship club for the year like we did with Bedlow Jr this season
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
What are Sales main 12's next season?
Click to expand...
Bedlow Sr will probably be first choice, but considering Waisea and Addison coming in, both 13s, I wouldn't be surprised if Rob du Preez plays a lot there

RMW will probably get game time there as the coaches rave about him but he's been poor in every senior game I've seen him so far, just really not up to speed with it (hence me wanting him to go on loan somewhere he can play every week), and then Joe Bedlow is coming back from loan and has been playing 12 at Donnie all season

I'd like to see Luke James go back to 12 considering Carpenter has got 15 locked down and Addison can be his backup
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Bedlow Sr will probably be first choice, but considering Waisea and Addison coming in, both 13s, I wouldn't be surprised if Rob du Preez plays a lot there

RMW will probably get game time there as the coaches rave about him but he's been poor in every senior game I've seen him so far, just really not up to speed with it (hence me wanting him to go on loan somewhere he can play every week), and then Joe Bedlow is coming back from loan and has been playing 12 at Donnie all season

I'd like to see Luke James go back to 12 considering Carpenter has got 15 locked down and Addison can be his backup
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At U20 I preferred Joe Woodward, I would like to see get some game time at tigers next season tbh
 
Same here. Really like the look of Woodward. Runs hard lines but also has some playmaking ability.
 

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