England 2023/24

[TRF_Olyy]

One source claimed that the ex-Sale, Saracens and Leicester scrum-half had argued that anyone would struggle to set up an effective attack within the parameters of Borthwick's rigid system.

That's pretty damning

How would you feel about Wigglesworth returning?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

That's pretty damning

How would you feel about Wigglesworth returning?

I would love it honestly.
His tenure at Tigers I felt looked the most complete we had been for years and if Pollard wasn't out for that semi final I feel we had a chance of taking sale.

 

[Geordie]

Doubts over England futures of Richard Wigglesworth and Kevin Sinfield

England's imminent coaching reshuffle is leading to uncertainty and potential upheaval, as Steve Borthwick sets about putting plans in place for the next four-year World Cup cycle.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Interesting read...
"The impending arrival of Felix Jones – fresh from his second global success with the Springboks – is thought to be causing confusion and doubt about demarcation lines between coaches, as his role has not been defined.

The former Munster full-back had a broad remit with South Africa and after their triumph in Paris, Wille le Roux said: 'He helps us with our attack, our strike moves, the backs... I think the Springboks are really going to miss him.'"

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Daily Mail saying Sinfield out and that if McKeller leaves Tigers for Aus Wigglesworth could be tempted to join Leicester as head coach

"It had been widely assumed that Jones would replace Kevin Sinfield as defence guru, but his attack credentials are understood to have left Wigglesworth unsure of whether the scope of his job could be altered.

One source claimed that the ex-Sale, Saracens and Leicester scrum-half had argued that anyone would struggle to set up an effective attack within the parameters of Borthwick's rigid system."

Big worry about that last bit because it is a worry of mine.
Whatever attack coach we bring in will have to work around Borthwick's system and that does seem extremely rigid.

Case in point looking at Tigers with Borthwick head coach v how they played with Wigglesworth as head coach last season.

I guess the one big question is whether what we've seen from Borthwick so far was wholly focused on the RWC or if that's what we can expect going forward.

I don't know much about Jones but he's been involved in 2 RWC winning campaigns which is a bit of a contrast to the rest of the team that Borthwick has assembled. You'd like to think he'll have the credibility to challenge Borthwick if he doesn't like what he's seeing.

 

[Which Tyler]

Can't Jones come in as de-facto Head Coach, whilst Borthwick moves up to de-facto DoR (with input into the age-groups and Saxons)?
Please?
Someone competent and experienced as a Head Coach?
Too much to ask?

 

[Geordie]

Well we need to see how SB restructures his coaching team and how the team play through the 6n. Ive backed SB but we MUST start to see the roots of an attack merging through the 6n..aswell as an improvement in the quality of the kicking game.

Ill hold my verdict until after the 6n...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If Wigglesworth, who has known SB for decades, is willing to walk due to being stifled by SB then it's kinda hard to frame that as a positive re:attack development

 

[Geordie]

Well yes it doesnt bode well...but bringing Jones on board is a huge positive over Wigglesworth leaving...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Unless he just gets shouted down too

 

[Geordie]

Well thats the big question which i guess we will only really know post 6n....

 

[BrokenWing]

If Wigglesworth, who has known SB for decades, is willing to walk due to being stifled by SB then it's kinda hard to frame that as a positive re:attack development

But if he's know him for decades, why come in the first place? You've already worked under him so it isn't going to come as a great surprise.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If Wigglesworth, who has known SB for decades, is willing to walk due to being stifled by SB then it's kinda hard to frame that as a positive re:attack development

It's an easy spin in the sense that Wiggles is still v inexperienced and has gone back to learn his craft while being replaced by someone with much better creds. The problem is the team SB surrounded himself with in the first place.

Be interested to know what impact Harrison's made as scrum coach. He's not going to teach Marler, George and Cole anything. Early days but little evidence of positive impact on the other props.

 

[Geordie]

So Joe Marler has retired form International....the commentator has just said on the Bath v Bristol build up..

 

[Geordie]

Didn't see the game but from the reports it's who partners Lawrence in the centres in the 6n?

 

[Crash Hamster]

Didn't see the game but from the reports it's who partners Lawrence in the centres in the 6n?

He was very good indeed (again) tonight.

 

[Geordie]

Well that's good.

The other good thing is the number of youngsters really putting their hand up for the England A set up....

Just in the falcon's v sale game there was quite a few!!

 

[Lé Ddanno]

He was very good indeed (again) tonight.

Missed it, at 12 or 13?

 

[Which Tyler]

Missed it, at 12 or 13?

13 - which is where he's best, and is pretty much exclusively where he plays his rugby... unless with England where he has to play like Manu, rather than showing why he was picked.

I can already see (here and elsewhere) than "Lawrence is a 12" is the new "Watson doesn't play fullback"

 

[Geordie]

So who do you play with him at 12?

 

[Which Tyler]

So who do you play with him at 12?

Redpath or Ojomoh, both of whom are better than Lawrence at IC.

Now that Francis has left, he'd probably be 3rd choice at IC - but even then, it's probably better to leave him at 13 and have someone else IC (Butt and Wright are both perfectly at home in either centre berth, Bailey and Harris are also options there), than to not have Lawrence exploiting that bit of extra time and space.

Again, it's like asking "so who do you play at wing, if you have Watson at FB?"