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Aviva Premiership - Round 12

Conrad Smith said:
Well if you give me a Bath jersey, we can discuss my membership :p

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Talk to Bruce Craig, if the salary cap accusations are true he's going to have to find somewhere else to throw his money away now...

Muse_Cubed said:
And, as the commentary team astutely pointed out, the form of guys like Eastmond and Banahan has been down to Sam's presence on the team. All hail the mighty one.

(no, seriously, they actually said that)
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God I know, it was excruciating. I feel sorry for Sam actually, this ridiculous hype, backed up by very little serious achievement (absolutely not his fault, he's doing as well as you can expect a novice to do at this point) is going to turn a lot of people against him unfairly when all he wants to do is get his head down and be the best union player he can be.

ragerancher said:
To be fair, Burgess could hardly be blamed for the shambles that Bath delivered today. The forwards were all getting wound up too easily, were **** poor in the maul and scrum and my god were they slow. Don't waft around when a player is isolated, move your ****ing arses and get in. I can understand fatigue towards the end of the game but less than 15 mins in walking to a breakdown where your own player is isolated is just inexcusable. None of the Bath players looked like they could be bothered.

The backs were too busy trying to create the magic offload, even when going backwards, that they completely ignored the basics. On the whole a complete lack of cohesion and breakdown in discipline. Stupid forward passes too. Literally not a single redeeming feature in that game.
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I wasn't blaming the defeat on Burgess, or even on his selection, clearly there were far more issues at stake, I was just ranting because I said before the game he'd be ineffectual, I was right, and I was in a filthy mood because of the performance so I let it out a bit. Overall I agree with your assessment of what went wrong, especially the pathetic lack of support at the breakdown. I couldn't understand why every time the camera was zoomed in on a ruck there weren't enough Bath players there, yet every time the camera was a wide shot of the backline there were more Leicester defenders than Bath attackers. Where the hell was everyone?!

What worries me most is this pattern of Bath going to pieces under a little bit of pressure, especially away from home. The late-season capitulation last season, most of the Northampton game in September, the Wasps game, and now yesterday. It's a repeating pattern, it smacks of psychological weakness, and it doesn't really show any sign of going away, to be frank. I still think we'll make the playoffs and probably get a home semi (although Saracens could easily overhaul us into third), but I don't really rate our chances in knockout rugby against fired up quality teams.

A lot of it is leaders, I just don't see where our leaders are. Hooper's willing and hard-working but an uninspiring player and it seems equally uninspiring captain, Ford is always talked up for how much he "bosses everyone about" but is always at the centre of these capitulations (don't mean to be harsh on him, he's 21 and he will learn, but if he's identified as a "leader" ... ). Wilson and James get dragged into squabbles, as apparently does Webber. Louw I always thought would be a good influence, cool-headed and pretty calm, but he wasn't really anywhere yesterday and I'm not sure he's a rousing leader of men type. I wonder if that's partly why Burgess was signed, a lot has been made of his strength of character and all that jazz. But pinning your hopes for leadership and direction on a man who hasn't ever played the game is even more nuts than pinning your hopes for line-breaks on him.

"Literally not a single redeeming feature" - Garvey was pretty good. Not outstanding, but considering the dross around him he deserves to be the one sitting in the changing room silently thinking "well, I did my bit ... "
 
Every Time Ref said:
What worries me most is this pattern of Bath going to pieces under a little bit of pressure, especially away from home. The late-season capitulation last season, most of the Northampton game in September, the Wasps game, and now yesterday. It's a repeating pattern, it smacks of psychological weakness, and it doesn't really show any sign of going away, to be frank. I still think we'll make the playoffs and probably get a home semi (although Saracens could easily overhaul us into third), but I don't really rate our chances in knockout rugby against fired up quality teams.

A lot of it is leaders, I just don't see where our leaders are. Hooper's willing and hard-working but an uninspiring player and it seems equally uninspiring captain, Ford is always talked up for how much he "bosses everyone about" but is always at the centre of these capitulations (don't mean to be harsh on him, he's 21 and he will learn, but if he's identified as a "leader" ... ). Wilson and James get dragged into squabbles, as apparently does Webber. Louw I always thought would be a good influence, cool-headed and pretty calm, but he wasn't really anywhere yesterday and I'm not sure he's a rousing leader of men type. I wonder if that's partly why Burgess was signed, a lot has been made of his strength of character and all that jazz. But pinning your hopes for leadership and direction on a man who hasn't ever played the game is even more nuts than pinning your hopes for line-breaks on him.

"Literally not a single redeeming feature" - Garvey was pretty good. Not outstanding, but considering the dross around him he deserves to be the one sitting in the changing room silently thinking "well, I did my bit ... "
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I wouldn't worry about it too much, most teams have rough patches and this season bath seem to have come back from those difficult games with good performances... the next couple of weeks will tell a lot.

also Burgess:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30678502

Sam Burgess says switch to union with Bath tougher than expected

Sam Burgess says he is finding switching codes from rugby league to union tougher than expected, with line-outs a particular frustration.
Burgess, 26, who began his union career with Bath in November, made his first Premiership start in the 17-8 defeat by Leicester on Sunday.
"I knew it was going to be tough but I didn't know it was going to be as tough as this," said Burgess.
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Maybe I'm overreacting to a poor performance, but I do see a pattern of Bath crumbling and losing their heads when put under pressure (both on-pitch and off-pitch pressure). I think that is regular enough to be a specific issue rather than writing it off as the odd bad game, which yes, every team has. To flip it on its head, I can't think of an example of Bath coming under that sort of pressure, away from home in a big game and dealing with it well. Every team comes under pressure, the trick is to ride it out and still take something from the performance. Bath are, on paper, a better side than Leicester - in that situation, a really strong team rides out the pressure, concedes some points but stays in control and in touch, only gives penalties away judiciously, doesn't panic and waits for their chance to strike. Certainly, a strong team when given the chance to go in at half time only an unconverted try behind after being dominated for 40 minutes would have taken those points and come out after the break focussed and brimming with intent.

The other problem is it gives sides a blueprint for beating us. Hit the breakdown, the set piece and everything hard, get in certain players' ears and wind them up, get at George Ford, keep up the intensity and watch them crack. Everyone will be taking note of this, especially Northampton and Saracens.
 
"I think 12 (inside centre) suits learning the game quicker, whereas six (flanker) you need to have more of a knowledge of the game," said Burgess, in an interview with Australia's Fox Sports News.

"If there was a position in between the two, I would like that one. Twelve comes more naturally to me because I don't have as many decisions to make.

burgess to play 9 then?
 
I don't see how you could ever be genuinely surprised by the challenge when switching code. There's whole areas of the game where theres nothing in common between the two codes.
As I've said before, it seems to me to be a bit naive to want to play Burgess at 6 so soon after the switch when most blindsides can draw on double figures worth of years honing their art, both dark and otherwise.

Commentators and coaches like to say how rugby (union) is a simple game. Thing is it really isn't much of the time!
 
HenryChinaski said:
I don't see how you could ever be genuinely surprised by the challenge when switching code. There's whole areas of the game where theres nothing in common between the two codes.
As I've said before, it seems to me to be a bit naive to want to play Burgess at 6 so soon after the switch when most blindsides can draw on double figures worth of years honing their art, both dark and otherwise.

Commentators and coaches like to say how rugby (union) is a simple game. Thing is it really isn't much of the time!
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What do you mean it isn't easy !!! We make it sound the easiest thing in the world on here
 
Every Time Ref said:
Maybe I'm overreacting to a poor performance, but I do see a pattern of Bath crumbling and losing their heads when put under pressure (both on-pitch and off-pitch pressure).
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- Smallest pitch in the Premiership (by a distance) doesn't suit our style
- Both of our first choice centres (arguably our greatest attacking threat) injured... (we looked a lot more threatening before Kyle went off IMO)
- Away from home against a team with no shortage of motivation and on an upward curve form-wise
- Off days with the boot happen sometimes
 
ratsapprentice said:
- Smallest pitch in the Premiership (by a distance) doesn't suit our style
- Both of our first choice centres (arguably our greatest attacking threat) injured... (we looked a lot more threatening before Kyle went off IMO)
- Away from home against a team with no shortage of motivation and on an upward curve form-wise
- Off days with the boot happen sometimes
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Excuses excuses.

We had 2 players injured boo hooo
 
ratsapprentice said:
- Smallest pitch in the Premiership (by a distance) doesn't suit our style
- Both of our first choice centres (arguably our greatest attacking threat) injured... (we looked a lot more threatening before Kyle went off IMO)
- Away from home against a team with no shortage of motivation and on an upward curve form-wise
- Off days with the boot happen sometimes
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LOL!!! "they aren't excuses, they are reasons" ;)
 
I don't know whether you've heard, but Leicester have been missing 5 British & Irish Lions...
 
against bath away we were missing
4 props including 3 internationals
3 locks including our Club Captain
a international openside
6 centres including Manu
3 back three players

But did we complain no!!!!!! (Sort of ) ;)
 
Unfortunately not enough footage was available of Leicester's recent FH recruit to be deemed worthwhile releasing.
 

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