Springboks vs Wallabies, July 24th 2010, Third Tri Nations Test

[smartcooky]

This game is pretty much make or break for the Bokke. They win here, especially with a bonus point, they will be at home for their last three matches, and could be difficult to roll; they lose and they are probably gone for the season.

What the Bokke need now is a coach who actually coaches rugby, not one who spends all his time looking outside his group for people to blame for why they lost, and embarrassing himself and his team doing it. The great Springbok coaches of the past (such as Cecil Moss, Danie Craven, Kitch Christie and Jake White) would NEVER look outside for others to blame, always looking inwards for what he could do to improve his team.

Grant Fox put it perfectly last night on ReUnion

"....too much time looking out the window; not enough time in looking in the mirror."

EDIT:

Earlier I stated that Bryce Lawrence was going to referee this match, but he is injured, and have been replaced by, George Clancy. Boks will will be really happy.... ANOTHER Irishman!!!

 

[nickdnz]

Oi Nick! Did you become a mod???

Oh, yeah. A couple of weeks back I think.


Australia can win. I even think they have a few really good players. They just need to play as a team and click together, otherwise I see the Boks winning by 15+ points.

 

[Jer1cho]

We just need to pitch up. If we do, we can win easily. If we don't, the 49-0 record may be in jeopardy.

 

[Hurricane Nate]

15+ is a bit generous considering how the Boks are at the mo. That coach of theirs is more concerned bout moaning bout referees, not his own tactics. Robbie Deans is Aussies trump card. They click and he comes up with a solid gameplan, which he will, Aussie will run circles around the one dimensional springboks who will yet again rely on penalties, drop goals, bombs, box kicks, dirty tactics, set piece, defensive pressure and big ugly forwards. If the Aussie fowards atleast match the Boks for most of the game their backline will do the damage. I'd even go as far as picking Aussie 15+ on a dry track.

 

[Jer1cho]

Well, this is make or break for Kankowski i feel. He has not excelled at test level, and with Spies being 'irreplaceable' Kankowski needs a mammoth game, otherwise i fear it could be his last call up into a Bok squad. Let's hope he knows what he has to do. If our pack can just get that physical edge, Kankowski and Spies could combine incredibly well. With Schalk Burger not having stolen a ball since 2004, i fear that they are going to be nothing more than shoddy defenders.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

This game is pretty much make or break for the Bokke. They win here, especially with a bonus point, they will be at home for their last three matches, and could be difficult to roll; they lose and they are probably gone for the season.

What the Bokke need now is a coach who actually coaches rugby, not one who spends all his time looking outside his group for people to blame for why they lost, and embarrassing himself and his team doing it. The great Springbok coaches of the past (such as Cecil Moss, Danie Craven, Kitch Christie and Jake White) would NEVER look outside for others to blame, always looking inwards for what he could do to improve his team.

Grant Fox put it perfectly last night on ReUnion

"....too much time looking out the window; not enough time in looking in the mirror."

EDIT:

Earlier I stated that Bryce Lawrence was going to referee this match, but he is injured, and have been replaced by, George Clancy. Boks will will be really happy.... ANOTHER Irishman!!!

Oh dear Clancy ... I feel sorry for the Boks and Wallabies because he is utter useless.

 

[SavageLez]

South Africa should win this match but I am afraid the best players have still not been picked. Liebenburg or Gary Botha should be the starting hooker with John "****" on the bench for his leadership and experience. Frans Steyn should be the Full-Back. The team does look exciting with Kankowski and Spies starting together, they may get away with it against OZ but against NZ Kankow and Spies should swop positions.

South africa must remember that this is really a "B" team and that this experience will only help them with depth when it comes to the Rugby World Cup 2011.
Players missing from last years campaign are:

Beast (Passport issues but will play)
Bismaark Du Plessis
Bakkies Botha (Injured most of the season and only played approx 30 min of 1st Test against AB)
Fourie Du Preez
Juan Smith (will only join the squad on home leg of Tri Nations)
Heinrich Brussouw
JP Pieterson
Frans Steyn (coach has something against him)
Jean De Villiers (First played out of position and now injured)

That is 9 players off hand from the starting team last year!

 

[nickdnz]

South Africa should win this match but I am afraid the best players have still not been picked. Liebenburg or Gary Botha should be the starting hooker with John "****" on the bench for his leadership and experience. Frans Steyn should be the Full-Back. The team does look exciting with Kankowski and Spies starting together, they may get away with it against OZ but against NZ Kankow and Spies should swop positions.

South africa must remember that this is really a "B" team and that this experience will only help them with depth when it comes to the Rugby World Cup 2011.
Players missing from last years campaign are:

Beast (Passport issues but will play)
Bismaark Du Plessis
Bakkies Botha (Injured most of the season and only played approx 30 min of 1st Test against AB)
Fourie Du Preez
Juan Smith (will only join the squad on home leg of Tri Nations)
Heinrich Brussouw
JP Pieterson
Frans Steyn (coach has something against him)
Jean De Villiers (First played out of position and now injured)

That is 9 players off hand from the starting team last year!

Only Heinrich Brussouw, Juan Smith and Fourie du Prezz I'd consider deserved starters.
JdV-screwed himself up.
JP Pieterson-Has played out of form all S14.
Frans Steyn-Plays in France, screw him. It's not a personal vendetta you idiot, he has club commitments.
Bakkies Botha-Thug, and SA are better off without him.
Bismaark Du Plessis-Poor Super 14, Gary Botha is better than him anyway.
Beast-Yeah, he should start, although he's free top be selected.

I hate it how people think Steyn should be chosen, and then SA would be fine. He's been playing average for a start. And the AB's would love to play a prop like Hayman or a scrum half like Kelleher, but we live without them. If people are trying to convince themselves their problems are that their team is a B team, as an excuse to lose, it's pretty sad. NZ don't have Sitivini Sivivatu, Andrew Hore, Ali Williams, Chris Jack, Luke McAlister, Isaac Ross, Isia Toeava, Hosea Gear, Sonny Bill Williams, Carl Hayman, Byron Kelleher etc, though selection, injury or over seas policy. Get over it.

 

[Veal]

The test will be about ball retention and possession.

The Boks have gone in without a true openside flanker or a "fetcher" as the Saffers call them. (Why I don't know - they good fetchers but they left them back at home...)

Kankowski is not a specialist fetcher while Pocock is and in general the Wallaby pack is more mobile than the Boks. The Boks were beaten at the breakdown last two games.

Judging by the interpretation of the rules of the last two games, the more mobile and quicker packs will dominate with the bias to the attacking side.

Simple equation:

possession = points

Wallabies by 10

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Only Heinrich Brussouw, Juan Smith and Fourie du Prezz I'd consider deserved starters.
JdV-screwed himself up.
JP Pieterson-Has played out of form all S14.
Frans Steyn-Plays in France, screw him. It's not a personal vendetta you idiot, he has club commitments.
Bakkies Botha-Thug, and SA are better off without him.
Bismaark Du Plessis-Poor Super 14, Gary Botha is better than him anyway.
Beast-Yeah, he should start, although he's free top be selected.

I hate it how people think Steyn should be chosen, and then SA would be fine. He's been playing average for a start. And the AB's would love to play a prop like Hayman or a scrum half like Kelleher, but we live without them. If people are trying to convince themselves their problems are that their team is a B team, as an excuse to lose, it's pretty sad. NZ don't have Sitivini Sivivatu, Andrew Hore, Ali Williams, Chris Jack, Luke McAlister, Isaac Ross, Isia Toeava, Hosea Gear, Sonny Bill Williams, Carl Hayman, Byron Kelleher etc, though selection, injury or over seas policy. Get over it.

Oh no ... you did not just say SBW did you

 

[Jer1cho]

It's not a B Team, but it's also not the strongest possible team we could field. In my opinion, this is the strongest team we could have without injuries:

15. Patrick Lambie
14. Gerhard vd Heever
13. Jaque Fourie
12. Francois Steyn
11. Francois Hougaard
10. Morne steyn

9. Fourie du Preez

8. Pierre Spies/Ryan Kankowski
7. Juan smith
6. Francois Louw/Heinrich Brussouw
5. Victor Matfield
4. Andries bekker
3. CJ vd Linde
2. Craig Burden - I have said it since i saw him the first time. He is the new Schalk Brits. He was a winger originally!
1. Gurthro Steenkamp

Some dodgy selections, but this is a team full of flair.

 

[cyRil]

But that team would get dicked, wouldn't it?

 

[smartcooky]

The team does look exciting with Kankowski and Spies starting together, they may get away with it against OZ but against NZ Kankow and Spies should swop positions.

No way mate. Spies would not stand the battering that the blindside flankers get these days. He ain't no Jerry Collins or Jerome Kaino. Someone has already pointed out that you can keep Spies quiet if you hit him hard and early in the match... he goes into his shell; he went MIA in both matches against NZ.

You play him at blindside and the first time he tries to carry the ball up the blind channel around the fringes of a ruck or maul, he will get hammered by Rocky Elsom.

 

[admartian]

Only Heinrich Brussouw, Juan Smith and Fourie du Prezz I'd consider deserved starters.
JdV-screwed himself up.
JP Pieterson-Has played out of form all S14.
Frans Steyn-Plays in France, screw him. It's not a personal vendetta you idiot, he has club commitments.
Bakkies Botha-Thug, and SA are better off without him.
Bismaark Du Plessis-Poor Super 14, Gary Botha is better than him anyway.
Beast-Yeah, he should start, although he's free top be selected.

I hate it how people think Steyn should be chosen, and then SA would be fine. He's been playing average for a start. And the AB's would love to play a prop like Hayman or a scrum half like Kelleher, but we live without them. If people are trying to convince themselves their problems are that their team is a B team, as an excuse to lose, it's pretty sad. NZ don't have Sitivini Sivivatu, Andrew Hore, Ali Williams, Chris Jack, Luke McAlister, Isaac Ross, Isia Toeava, Hosea Gear, Sonny Bill Williams, Carl Hayman, Byron Kelleher etc, though selection, injury or over seas policy. Get over it.

This! Times a billion.

People shouldn't really use that excuse. I mean it's not like SA is a minnow or average rugby nation that relies on a few players alone. They have good stock and depth, so can field a strong team any time.

The injury excuse is bull (for any good side). Sure, it would explain a lot of things, but teams like SA should still perform (maybe not win) but play well.



That, and Frans Steyn isn't God. He can kick Drop goals from about 3kms away, but that's about it. Good potential and talent, but hasn't put it together.

I think it's his big boot as well as that fact he's a utility back which makes people drool and cream their pants over him. That's about it.

 

[nickdnz]

This! Times a billion.

People shouldn't really use that excuse. I mean it's not like SA is a minnow or average rugby nation that relies on a few players alone. They have good stock and depth, so can field a strong team any time.

The injury excuse is bull (for any good side). Sure, it would explain a lot of things, but teams like SA should still perform (maybe not win) but play well.



That, and Frans Steyn isn't God. He can kick Drop goals from about 3kms away, but that's about it. Good potential and talent, but hasn't put it together.

I think it's his big boot as well as that fact he's a utility back which makes people drool and cream their pants over him. That's about it.

In fairness, the All Blacks lost last year partly because McCaw and Carter were injured, and I can see how's it is frustrating, but the All Blacks team that lost was the best team NZ had avalible according to Graham Henry and co. And it's the same situation in South Africa, yes du Preez was important, but to think that him in the team would make them a much better team is rubbish. It's just talk of "B" teams is used to make excuses and to take away from another teams accomplishments, which it does annoy me. There are plenty of great NZ talent that wasn't included for a number of reasons, but it isn't brought up nearly as much. Is it because we're winning right now? Maybe, but I don't like talks of "B" teams even when we're losing. I don't think, "hey, this match doesn't count, we don't have a few key players" I think "my team is playing poorly" or "The other national team is playing better than we can at the moment".

 

[smartcooky]

...and Frans Steyn isn't God. He can kick Drop goals from about 3kms away, but that's about it. Good potential and talent, but hasn't put it together.

I think it's his big boot as well as that fact he's a utility back which makes people drool and cream their pants over him. That's about it.

Agree. Frans Steyn is a one-trick pony. Really, he can only kick those monster dropped goals when he has time and space, usually given to him by an opponent who has kicked the ball downfield with no height and no chasers.

You would rarely if ever see him kick a 60m dropped goal from a ruck, scrum or recycled ball, as that requires a "snap shot" technique; not good for distance.

To prevent him kicking the long ones, you make sure that you kick the ball OUT, and and chase like hell to stop the quick throw in.

 

[Jer1cho]

MaCaw played in all 3 tests against us, and Carter played in only the last test, or am I mistaken? We would be better off with Francois Styen, yes, but Fourie du Preez is the one we desperately miss.

Agree. Frans Steyn is a one-trick pony. Really, he can only kick those monster dropped goals when he has time and space, usually given to him by an opponent who has kicked the ball downfield with no height and no chasers.

You would rarely if ever see him kick a 60m dropped goal from a ruck, scrum or recycled ball, as that requires a "snap shot" technique; not good for distance.

To prevent him kicking the long ones, you make sure that you kick the ball OUT, and and chase like hell to stop the quick throw in.

A one trick Pony? Did you miss the World Cup in 2007? It seems so... He is a good player. Not the messiah make him out to be, but he is a very talented player.

 

[admartian]

In fairness, the All Blacks lost last year partly because McCaw and Carter were injured, and I can see how's it is frustrating, but the All Blacks team that lost was the best team NZ had avalible according to Graham Henry and co. And it's the same situation in South Africa, yes du Preez was important, but to think that him in the team would make them a much better team is rubbish. It's just talk of "B" teams is used to make excuses and to take away from another teams accomplishments, which it does annoy me. There are plenty of great NZ talent that wasn't included for a number of reasons, but it isn't brought up nearly as much. Is it because we're winning right now? Maybe, but I don't like talks of "B" teams even when we're losing. I don't think, "hey, this match doesn't count, we don't have a few key players" I think "my team is playing poorly" or "The other national team is playing better than we can at the moment".

Oh yeah, that's exactly how I feel. I mean, I'm bloody ****** whenever we lose, but it's purely from that fact rather than external factors (unless a poisoning and a forward pass + Wayne Barnes :lol are involved.

MaCaw played in all 3 tests against us, and Carter played in only the last test, or am I mistaken? We would be better off with Francois Styen, yes, but Fourie du Preez is the one we desperately miss.



A one trick Pony? Did you miss the World Cup in 2007? It seems so... He is a good player. Not the messiah make him out to be, but he is a very talented player.

Yes he's good (as I've said) and room for more improvement (which is scary) but people make it out to be he's the MJ of rugby.

 

[smartcooky]

MaCaw played in all 3 tests against us, and Carter played in only the last test,

Yes you remember well. I think some people are getting confused by the fact that McCaw did not play in any of the June tests. Thomson played 7 in the 1st test loss v France and Latimer played 7 in the second test against France and the one-off v Italy.

 

[cyRil]

I wouldn't compare him to Martin Johnson myself.