Wallabies 28 vs All Blacks 49, July 31st 2010, Fourth Tri Nations Test FT

[nickdnz]

Dump tackle, spear tackle, shoulder charge. Whatever!!

Shoulder charging and lifting/driving tackles are a legitimate part of Rugby League, and it actually makes sense for them because they have NO contest for the ball at the tackle (other than a one-on-one strip, or dislodging the ball, which both must be done with the ball carrier still on his feet).

However, these are not necessary in Rugby Union because we DO have a contest, and there are better ways to get the ball. In fact lifting the ball-carrier almost always gives him the opportunity to offload the ball, whereas the ball-and-all tackle does not.

Spear tackling has no place in either code as they are likely to cause serious injury and the margin for error is so narrow.

The Laws of the game outlaw any kind of contact with a player who is off his feet, both in the tackle and in the line-out - Law 10.4(i) - so I cannot see how it can make sense allowing a ball carrier to be tackled by lifting him off the ground. Its effectively the same thing.

I can see a few advantages of just lifting a player off his feet.


(attempted to lift player to drive him behind his own advantage line, this means your team is able to go forward to contest for the ball, where as the other team has to back track. Not best example in this video, but it's the general idea. Lifting the feet off the ground also means that the player can't resist in the same way driving back a grounded player can). I can't see why this would be considered dangerous. It's all about what part of the player makes contact to the ground first that I think counts.

 

[veux]

It looked like a game that could have gone a lot better for the Aussies tbh. They really need Cooper back, and a more dynamic outside centre, Horne doesn't seem to do much.

 

[smartcooky]

Nick

If you look at the video you posted of Nonu on Blair, I have no problem with that. The force of the tackle knocked Blair off his feet and drove him back, but at no stage did Nonu grasp and lift the player.

I would like to see lifting made illegal from the point of view that it takes away a grey area from the referee's judgment.

► It is easy to judge if a player is grasping and lifting the ball carrier. Its an objective observation; either the player is lifting his opponent or he isn't

►It is more difficult judge if that lifting is becoming dangerous. This is a subjective observation that can depend on the ball carrier's response to what is happening

And as you have posted in the Nonu v Blair video, there is a VERY effective (and legal) alternative to lifting the player up.

 

[woodward]

that could be a grey area as well. I don't think they showed a replay of the Whitelock tackle but from memory it was a perfect tackle but they wanted to card it

 

[Quadecooper#1]

Nick

If you look at the video you posted of Nonu on Blair, I have no problem with that. The force of the tackle knocked Blair off his feet and drove him back, but at no stage did Nonu grasp and lift the player.

I would like to see lifting made illegal from the point of view that it takes away a grey area from the referee's judgment.

► It is easy to judge if a player is grasping and lifting the ball carrier. Its an objective observation; either the player is lifting his opponent or he isn't

►It is more difficult judge if that lifting is becoming dangerous. This is a subjective observation that can depend on the ball carrier's response to what is happening

And as you have posted in the Nonu v Blair video, there is a VERY effective (and legal) alternative to lifting the player up.

i think if that was the case then yellow/ red cards would increase exponentially ruining the game. sometimes you need to lift a bloke to get him to the ground e.g if he has good body height and you get underneath him and drive him back. . just keep it as it is: don't lift past the horizontal. that said some dangerous tackles are worse than others, eg coopers and fouries in the same game should have been left at a yellow card neither tackle was that bad. anything less than that should just be a penalty and a warning. same goes for the ABs number 18 or who ever it was he lifted AAC to horizontal but not past it. it was a penalty fair enough but if the touchie got a number he was going to get the bin which was overkill (i beleive the touchie was kaplan).

 

[tinchy17]

Sorry for repeating myself, but I am Richie McCaw's biggest fan. He absolutely amazing!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The problem with carding all lifting tackles would be for tackles like this: (though maybe this isn't the best example?)

Did Wilkinson lift him, or did the player leave the floor due to the force of the tackle?
A good example would be if a massive forward nailed a tiny winger, the force could make him leave the floor, but if the ref only caught it out the corne of his eye, the prop could get sent off through no fault of his own other than making a big hit

 

[Sam Owen]

Wilkinson just smashed him if you ask me. Nice too that one watched it 3 times I enjoyed it so much. Its funny how the commentators start of with 'will France have the final say, Castinyade and oohhhh, Wilkinson again'...hahaha. Champion old Wilko is.

 

[tinchy17]

Thats gotta hurt

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Drew Mitchell's First Yellow Card


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[allblacksfreak]

Drew Mitchell's First Yellow Card


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There we go! Man, I went over and over the recorded game and cannot find anything!!! My eyes hurt..

 

[TRF_Cymro]

There we go! Man, I went over and over the recorded game and cannot find anything!!! My eyes hurt..

Rep me if you want :lol:

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looks more like he ran into him, then tackled him, to me. He had his eyes on the ball at all times, he just collided with McCaw and pushed him out of his way
It's alot like the tackle Shontayne Hape made in the Eng/Aus second test which almost gave Aus the match -> he had his eyes on the ball, ran forwards and into Giteau and as they collided he shoved him in a "get out of my way" kind of way - Hapes looked worse than that as well (McCaw seems to be hamming it up a bit...) - and he didn't get carded

 

[tinchy17]

Looks more like he ran into him, then tackled him, to me. He had his eyes on the ball at all times, he just collided with McCaw and pushed him out of his way
It's alot like the tackle Shontayne Hape made in the Eng/Aus second test which almost gave Aus the match -> he had his eyes on the ball, ran forwards and into Giteau and as they collided he shoved him in a "get out of my way" kind of way - Hapes looked worse than that as well (McCaw seems to be hamming it up a bit...) - and he didn't get carded

How dare you say that about McCaw?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

How dare you say that about McCaw?

He just said it ... bite him!

 

[SelimNiai]

Ah I see now, by the letter of the law it was definatley a penalty, not sure a card was warrented as, McCaw did milk it slightly. But for sheer dumbass-ness both yellows were deserved.

 

[smartcooky]

The problem with carding all lifting tackles would be for tackles like this: (though maybe this isn't the best example?)

Did Wilkinson lift him, or did the player leave the floor due to the force of the tackle?
A good example would be if a massive forward nailed a tiny winger, the force could make him leave the floor, but if the ref only caught it out the corne of his eye, the prop could get sent off through no fault of his own other than making a big hit

No, Wilko didn't lift him, and even if he did slightly, it was torso high where he wont lose control because the majority of the mass of the ball carrier's body is below the point of contact.

What I object to is players who grasp the player around the hips or thighs and whose ONLY initial action is to lift them up. The hips are near the centre of gravity for a human body, the thighs below it, so it becomes very easy to lose control and tip the player over, even if its not intended.

 

[*Axe*]

Wow, was interesting to see the amount of whinging about poor refereeing leading to All Blacks points. There was only one winner of that game. As soon as DC scored that try it was over. If Aussie had been able to play some good terrtory when they hit the lead it might have been a different story. But you would have backed the ABs to get up even if they were losing at the half.
I reckon Elsom has to take a bit of flak. Did the warning Joubert hand out occur during Mitchell's first sin bin visit? If it was then Elsom should give himself an upper cut for not making that the first thing he told him when he came back on.
If not, or if Elsom did tell him, Mitchell should have to do team gear duty for a month.
Did Elsom go back and tell his team at all? They had a great shot of Richie say "put the ball down" but Elsom just whinged to Joubert. Seems to be big problems right through the Aussie camp. Remeber the outrage of the NZ public when we let Deans go? I know he might not have the quality available that Henry does, but what is it 9-1 in favour of Ted??? Hard to argue with

 

[smartcooky]

I reckon Elsom has to take a bit of flak. Did the warning Joubert hand out occur during Mitchell's first sin bin visit?

Yes it did.

If it was then Elsom should give himself an upper cut for not making that the first thing he told him when he came back on.

Agree absolutely. Not only that, but Mitchell was back on before the half-time break, so even if he didn't get a chance before then, he had 10min to make it clear to Mitchell that the team was on a warning.

Did Elsom go back and tell his team at all? They had a great shot of Richie say "put the ball down" but Elsom just whinged to Joubert.

Not that I could see. All I saw was him shaking his head. Meanwhile, McCaw made the warning clear to his team. I guess right there you see the difference between a great captain and a poor one.

IMO, Elsom is not suitable to captain the Wallabies. He speaks to the referee in a surly and arrogant fashion, raising his voice as he does so. He doesn't listen, and is only interested in telling the ref what HE thinks. In some respects this reminds me of Borthwick as England Captain; only interested in giving the referee his own opinion. End result, England got something like 10 yellow cards in three games.

Remember the outrage of the NZ public when we let Deans go? I know he might not have the quality available that Henry does, but what is it 9-1 in favour of Ted??? Hard to argue with

I'm afraid to say that this "outrage" came mainly from "Crusader Country" (which makes me somewhat ashamed, since I am a Crusaders supporter).

I notice that those critics are strangely silent at the moment.

 

[woodward]

Dean's whingeing is almost as bad De Villiers