England 2023/24

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The only Rodd is pencilled in for is the school of scrummage. I'd bin him off as soon as Genge is back as he's not an international quality prop.

 

[BPM]

A bit harsh, but I tend to agree. Hopefully, he can improve his scrummaging technique as he's unlikely to be physically dominating tightheads.

I think a Genge/Baxter loosehead 1-2 looks it should be our go-to for the next while.

There is also a healthy amount of competition at loosehead. Most of whom are better scrummaging props than Rodd is right now.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

A bit harsh, but I tend to agree. Hopefully, he can improve his scrummaging technique as he's unlikely to be physically dominating tightheads.

I think a Genge/Baxter loosehead 1-2 looks it should be our go-to for the next while.

There is also a healthy amount of competition at loosehead. Most of whom are better scrummaging props than Rodd is right now.

Harsh but fair, Rodd has constantly been a worry in the scrum and with the emergence of Baxter should drop off the radar until he sorts his scrummaging out.

The real question though is, will he get the support and enough training to sort it out? He's either really got to work on his technique or his strength/ core or something but for him to improve something has to change and I wonder if he will get the support to do that or not.

 

[Geordie]

Yes many players from the U20s are getting a lot of hype.

Pollock is one...clearly has huge potential...but jeez its almost like he is a shoe in for the 6n!

They forget a raft of 7's / back rowers only a few years older like Pearson etc...not to mention a certain Guy Pepper who has already played a full season of prem rugby...being one of the stars of the game in nearly each one...whilst playing for the worst prem team in history. Hes the most complete flanker / player ive seen in a LONG time at only 21 and sadly ( as a falcon) Bath fans will see just how good this lad is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

My hot take is I don't think Pollock is going to step up to senior rugby well, not for a while at least - athletically very gifted, and good work rate, but decision making in forwards situations is poor, as is his close ruck and 5m defence

All stuff that can be learned through experience, but people are acting like he's ready now - he also seems like the kind of guy who likes the smell of his own farts, so is he going to want the grind when he could be hanging out with the backs instead?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yes many players from the U20s are getting a lot of hype.

Pollock is one...clearly has huge potential...but jeez its almost like he is a shoe in for the 6n!

They forget a raft of 7's / back rowers only a few years older like Pearson etc...not to mention a certain Guy Pepper who has already played a full season of prem rugby...being one of the stars of the game in nearly each one...whilst playing for the worst prem team in history. Hes the most complete flanker / player ive seen in a LONG time at only 21 and sadly ( as a falcon) Bath fans will see just how good this lad is.

I almost think Pollock will get more of a chance than Pepper because Pepper is behind Hill and Underhill who I can't see him being better than anytime soon.

The saints 7 shirt on the other hand is wide open at the moment and Pearson has been used at 6 quite a bit when he's played. Will be interesting to see how they both develop though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

IDK being a starter doesn't seem to be a big thing for Borthwick
He loved Reffell and loves Underhill I feel Pepper best fits that mould.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

All stuff that can be learned through experience, but people are acting like he's ready now - he also seems like the kind of guy who likes the smell of his own farts, so is he going to want the grind when he could be hanging out with the backs instead?

This is the bit for me - having sat near him at a game, and from speaking to people in similar circles, I don't get great vibes back from him personality wise. I don't want to be too judgy, as I don't know him, but not hugely inspired that he's a down to earth, humble guy

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

My hot take is I don't think Pollock is going to step up to senior rugby well, not for a while at least - athletically very gifted, and good work rate, but decision making in forwards situations is poor, as is his close ruck and 5m defence

All stuff that can be learned through experience, but people are acting like he's ready now - he also seems like the kind of guy who likes the smell of his own farts, so is he going to want the grind when he could be hanging out with the backs instead?

I don't think I've seen people talk about him being ready but he's one to watch with potential which is what England is all about in many ways.

As for his attitude, it's a massive judgement to assume that because he's outgoing and has a good sense of humour that he doesn't have an amazing work ethic. I think you'll find that Pollock does grind and does have an amazing work ethic. Don't judge his personality as that's not fair, you can see why in the media people want to come across as robots when judged for being themselves.

 

[Geordie]

I almost think Pollock will get more of a chance than Pepper because Pepper is behind Hill and Underhill who I can't see him being better than anytime soon.

The saints 7 shirt on the other hand is wide open at the moment and Pearson has been used at 6 quite a bit when he's played. Will be interesting to see how they both develop though.

Pepper is a pretty much complete player. He can do the lot...and im not blowing smoke up his aris by saying that. If hes managed right by the Bath management team he could be very special indeed..

But hes just an example of how a few of this current U20 are being hyped as mentioned above....theres young players ahead odf them already futher down the development path.

Maybe the front row issue is the one thats drving the most hype.. This season will be interesting as we'll see how their clubs rate Fordjour, Fasogabon etc by their gametime.

People mention Baxter, but i think he has been superbly managed by Quins.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

People mention Baxter, but i think he has been superbly managed by Quins.

And he's got an amazing mentor in Marler too, who really seems to have taken him under his wing - can't understate how important that is

 

[Geordie]

And he's got an amazing mentor in Marler too, who really seems to have taken him under his wing - can't understate how important that is

Absolutely...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And he's got an amazing mentor in Marler too, who really seems to have taken him under his wing - can't understate how important that is

Plus a scrum coach with reasonable credentials.

 

[BPM]

My hot take is I don't think Pollock is going to step up to senior rugby well, not for a while at least - athletically very gifted, and good work rate, but decision making in forwards situations is poor, as is his close ruck and 5m defence

All stuff that can be learned through experience, but people are acting like he's ready now - he also seems like the kind of guy who likes the smell of his own farts, so is he going to want the grind when he could be hanging out with the backs instead?

I have the same feeling. This is why I would not be in the least bit surprised to see him playing for Scotland.

I get the sense that he will expect to be fast tracked in to the senior England side only to get the arse when he has to earn it. In the meantime, the Scots will be sniffing around him like flies round s**t promising him caps (despite having Darge and a very promising 7 in Douglas). They will want the big coup and media furore and I think Pollock's ego might like that too.

Potentially all completely unfair, but it is the vibe I get from him and I'm clearly not alone.

 

[Geordie]

I have the same feeling. This is why I would not be in the least bit surprised to see him playing for Scotland.

I get the sense that he will expect to be fast tracked in to the senior England side only to get the arse when he has to earn it. In the meantime, the Scots will be sniffing around him like flies round s**t promising him caps (despite having Darge and a very promising 7 in Douglas). They will want the big coup and media furore and I think Pollock's ego might like that too.

Potentially all completely unfair, but it is the vibe I get from him and I'm clearly not alone.

Was it this 6n that Scotland had a 7 playing who was outstanding...not flashy but brutal and very intelligent at the breakdown etc? MOTM v England i think...ill have to have a look

 

[Geordie]

The other thing about progressing from the U20s is alot of luck. CCS in now an England player in a year...Lewis Chessum hugely hampered by injuries is way back from where many expected him to be.

Players from Last seasons U20s like Masai White the centre..who was getting plenty of attention.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I have the same feeling. This is why I would not be in the least bit surprised to see him playing for Scotland.

I get the sense that he will expect to be fast tracked in to the senior England side only to get the arse when he has to earn it. In the meantime, the Scots will be sniffing around him like flies round s**t promising him caps (despite having Darge and a very promising 7 in Douglas). They will want the big coup and media furore and I think Pollock's ego might like that too.

Potentially all completely unfair, but it is the vibe I get from him and I'm clearly not alone.

He's 19. So far the world has been busy telling him he's wonderful, it would be a huge surprise if he didn't have a healthy self regard.

But before he can even think of Eng he needs to get some serious first team experience and probably put on a stone. Plus Eng and virtually every other country have a shed load of good options in his position. Hopefully Lawes and Ludlam have told him what it takes.

What we don't know is how he'll react when the graph stops stops going uniformly upward which I suspect will be this coming season. He's a talent worth nurturing but the world won't stop turning if goes north of Hadrian.

 

[Saintjay]

I'd like to think Saints and Dowson will keep him pretty grounded. With are most recent back row i don't think he'd be allowed to run around like a dog with two d!cks. Someone would get a grip of him pretty quickly.

He's a young lad who's had to work and graft to get where he is now. He'll get found out very quickly with the senior Saints squad if he stops.

 

[Geordie]

Having a bit of arrogance and cockyness isnt that bad...as long he backs it up with performances on the pitch. I genuinely hope he has the mentality to graft his a$$ off now to really push for the Saints side and possibly further but as said above...theres a long list of talented back rowers to get ahead of over the near future.

Aaron Hinkley is an example of how things can go a bit wrong.

 

[Geordie]

Anyway...as the dust settles on the NZ tour...do you think there'll be many changes for the AIs?

Chessum brought back if hes fit?
Ted HIll could very well get in...if hes playing as consistently as last season.

Obano? Or has he missed his chance now with the emergence of Baxter and Iyogun?
Will George Ford be brought straight back in?