England 2023/24

[Which Tyler]

If so, then I'll be happy to have him at 6 for England - in about a season's time (and covering mid-match sooner).
I'd then be concerned about who takes the 19 shirt, however.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If so, then I'll be happy to have him at 6 for England - in about a season's time (and covering mid-match sooner).
I'd then be concerned about who takes the 19 shirt, however.

If we're talking about a season's time then Rusi seems like he could be purpose-built for the impact sub role.

 

[Which Tyler]

If we're talking about a season's time then Rusi seems like he could be purpose-built for the impact sub role.

Good point, well made.
But I'm scarred from repeated last-chances for Charlie Ewels.

 

[Which Tyler]

England A v Aus A at the stoop in November.

Much better than Portugal

Playing at the Stoop - which... why?
Taking it away from Twickenham? great.
Hoping just across the road? why?
If leaving Twickenham, why on earth, not take it outside of London, to a different rugby population? Surely Leicester, Bristol, or whoever else would be happy to host?

 

[Geordie]

Playing at the Stoop - which... why?
Taking it away from Twickenham? great.
Hoping just across the road? why?
If leaving Twickenham, why on earth, not take it outside of London, to a different rugby population? Surely Leicester, Bristol, or whoever else would be happy to host?

Yeah we've been saying that....Leicester, Bristol, Newcastle?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Or the best ground, Franklins Gardens!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Headingley would've been a good one, tbh - try and respark some Union interest around there

Still, it's good to see another game organised - hopefully we get (at least) one every international period moving forward

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If so, then I'll be happy to have him at 6 for England - in about a season's time (and covering mid-match sooner).
I'd then be concerned about who takes the 19 shirt, however.

I struggle to see how CCS was that much better than him at 6 tbh


He suited 6 more than pairing with Itoje imo

 

[higgik]

I struggle to see how CCS was that much better than him at 6 tbh


He suited 6 more than pairing with Itoje imo

Not thinking about pairing with Itoje, more his reserve to keep him honest or even dropping him.

 

[higgik]

The roles of BR have not changed, still ball carrier, destroyer, continuity player.
Maybe the positions each takes up in set pieces has changed.
For England having the defensive destroyer at 7 helps the blitz defence by creating a pocket of trouble.
The 8 with pace, helps with getting over the mainline by getting past forward defence.
The 6 is the carrier in tight traffic and the 3rd lineout option.
Other team maybe different, but I can see how SB is trying to set up..

 

[Scotty]

Youngs had heart surgery after collapsing - https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/articles/c80ejkd2774o

Just seen this, collapsed in training.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Really highlights how little U20's success can translate to the senior men's team

 

[Crash Hamster]

Really highlights how little U20's success can translate to the senior men's team

I'm not so sure; if there's a completely fresh batch of U20s each year (or two) and the senior international side consists of players age 22-35, one or two from each age group side becoming seasoned internationals would be about right.

Plenty of other players on that list have gone on to play Premiership standard rugby..

Selection for U20 squads must involve tossing a coin sometimes, meaning that some players who develop into top performers may miss out. We see it with the senior side, where some people favour a player who doesn't make the squad.

Some players develop late, but become world-beaters; others develop early but never kick on.

I'm sure there have been some whose career (leastways at top domestic level or above) has been curtailed by injury... or a career outside rugby opened up and they left the game.

All of the above also applies to the sides which the U20s play, so both the personnel and relative quality of teams can change dramatically. England suddenly picking exciting wingers and giving them the ball is a great example of this.

Then there's 'going on to play for another country'... especially where U20 seems to capture precisely no-one.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah I was surprised at how many players from there have gone on to have top level careers - plenty that have fallen to the side, but I think that's natural with u20s

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm not so sure; if there's a completely fresh batch of U20s each year (or two) and the senior international side consists of players age 22-35, one or two from each age group side becoming seasoned internationals would be about right.

Plenty of other players on that list have gone on to play Premiership standard rugby..

Selection for U20 squads must involve tossing a coin sometimes, meaning that some players who develop into top performers may miss out. We see it with the senior side, where some people favour a player who doesn't make the squad.

Some players develop late, but become world-beaters; others develop early but never kick on.

I'm sure there have been some whose career (leastways at top domestic level or above) has been curtailed by injury... or a career outside rugby opened up and they left the game.

All of the above also applies to the sides which the U20s play, so both the personnel and relative quality of teams can change dramatically. England suddenly picking exciting wingers and giving them the ball is a great example of this.

Then there's 'going on to play for another country'... especially where U20 seems to capture precisely no-one.

I'm more thinking of the insane hype the current pack is getting, and talk of fast tracking to England setup.

Hence the senior men's team rather than just overall top flight rugby

 

[BPM]

I think it's a couple of different things.

U20 success is not a guarantee of a test career. That's clear from any U20 sides - not just our own.

Where we've not done so well is creating the pathways for developing players. We should be getting a better return from our investment in U20 rugby but a lot of this is to do with the disconnect between England and the clubs which isn't really a factor for the rest of the home nations. As I understand it, COS job is to fix this and it does feel as though there's more of a deliberate focus here.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I'm more thinking of the insane hype the current pack is getting, and talk of fast tracking to England setup.

Hence the senior men's team rather than just overall top flight rugby

I guess it's the usual mix of some wishful thinking (I think everyone is allowed this) and some unjustified hype from a few people who know absolutely nothing about rugby.

There really aren't too many vacancies in the starting line-up. Off the top of my head, Martin, Chessum, CCS are all inked in for many years, Dan, Rodd, Baxter are pencilled in. Plenty of others on the current fringes have only to take a small step to become regular internationals.

Yes, we probably have two packs-worth of U20s who look as if they'd be right at home in an England jersey and could create a senior WC-winning side. Maybe. One day. If we're lucky. Worst case, it's a glut of talent of which one or more will almost certainly become world-class.

 

[BPM]

I think there's a bit of a fanciful over simplification driving it.

England at senior level have a creaky scrum whilst England at U20 have a dominant scrum … ergo, U20s to the rescue!

Which conveniently forgets the U20 lads were playing their equally inexperienced peers and would likely get taught a lesson by the gnarly and experienced operators in most Tier 1 packs.

It does feel like there is some excellent potential then that we absolutely have to do our best to nurture and bring through. However, it needs to be done properly. It isn't a simple cut and paste situation.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There'll be plenty of spots in the England side available once Saints get busted for their South African nutrition plan

 

[Becca]

There'll be plenty of spots in the England side available once Saints get busted for their South African nutrition plan

I'm shocked