England 2023/24

[TRF_Olyy]

Atkinson's not looking great for Gloucester this season, too - though Gloucester, in general, are a mess so can't hold too much against him

I want one of him/Ojomoh in the seniors and the other starting the A game

 

[Which Tyler]

The bright sparks at 12 with enough experience to be worth considering for this 6N are Kelly, Ojomoh and Atkinson. Of those 3, only Ojomoh is actually playing well. His issue being 2nd choice for both centre berths, but he's still getting plenty of game time despite that.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Step in Frasier Dingwall. Better than all those 12s, way more consistent and grabbed the starting 12 shirt for the saints.

I just wonder if he is big enough for international rugby.

 

[Which Tyler]

"If we insist on playing a centre in the wrong berth, than pair Slade with Lawrence, and let them chop and change as they see fit."

I still think of Dingwall as an OC, I believe he's played IC about as often as Slade; whilst Slade adds some experience - which is sorely lacking in my team selection.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

"If we insist on playing a centre in the wrong berth, than pair Slade with Lawrence, and let them chop and change as they see fit."

I still think of Dingwall as an OC, I believe he's played IC about as often as Slade; whilst Slade adds some experience - which is sorely lacking in my team selection.

In fairness I'd say the difference is that Dingwall looks like he may well make a more permanent switch to 12 at club level since the emergence of Freeman at 13, so he's worth investing in in that position. Slade will never consistently play 12 at club level.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

"If we insist on playing a centre in the wrong berth, than pair Slade with Lawrence, and let them chop and change as they see fit."

I still think of Dingwall as an OC, I believe he's played IC about as often as Slade; whilst Slade adds some experience - which is sorely lacking in my team selection.

Dingwall has played 12 way more than Slade but apart from this season he's mainly been our first choice 13.

This season Dingwall has only played 12. I'm guessing Hutchinson leaky defence is the main culprit for this omission.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

This season Dingwall has only played 12. I'm guessing Hutchinson leaky defence is the main culprit for this omission.

6/10 of his starts this season have been at 13.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

6/10 of his starts this season have been at 13.

Ummm that's a really poor memory from me there. Sorry about that.

He's played 12 since round 5 (of the prem) but played 13 for those first 5 games.

 

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, I agree he could end up at 12, but for now, he's an OC playing out of position - even if only in my mind when I see him wearing the 12 shirt.
This season he's had 4 starts at 12, 6 starts at 13. In total he's had 26 starts at 12.
Slade on the other hand hasn't started at IC for a while, but has 20 starts at 12 (about half of them at international level, which counts for more when talking about international selection). I wouldn't say that "Dingwall has played 12 way more than Slade"


Either way, both would be out of position (though my suggestion is to play him alongside Lawrence, with the specific aim on not nailing either of them into the IC & OC role).


ETA: stats from all.rugby btw
I also acknowledge my bias that I've said for... about a decade now, that Slade has everything I want from an IC - except experience at IC.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yeah, I agree he could end up at 12, but for now, he's an OC playing out of position - even if only in my mind when I see him wearing the 12 shirt.
This season he's had 4 starts at 12, 6 starts at 13. In total he's had 26 starts at 12.

For some reference, Dingwall has had 4 starts at 12 this season and 8 starts there last season for a total of 12 in the last 2 seasons.
Ojomoh has had 1 start at 12 this season and 11 starts at 12 last season making a total of... 12 starts in the last 2 seasons.

Even if Dingwall has played more 13 than 12 recently he's still been playing just as much 12 as your front runner (even more than him this season).
In my eyes even if Dingwall is perhaps slightly more of a 13 than a 12 he's still had plenty of experience at 12 and suits the role just fine. If he's playing better rugby at 12 than Ojomoh, Atkinson, etc. (which in my opinion he is) then he shouldn't be shunned just because he can also play another position.

 

[Which Tyler]

I... didn't know I was shunning him.

I didn't think of him at IC, because he's an OC in my mind. That's all.
Apologies to anyone offended by this.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I... didn't know I was shunning him.

I didn't think of him at IC, because he's an OC in my mind. That's all.
Apologies to anyone offended by this.

Is shun a more extreme word than I thought it was? My bad. I meant it purely in terms of 'leave out'.

Pure misunderstanding, no offence caused here.

 

[Geordie]

The thing I keep hearing about Dingwall is that hes a leader and in particular a great organiser on the pitch...defensively etc...

Only one way to see of he has the physicality....

However I do wonder if its going to be Manu and Lawrence.
Smith has big Esterhuizen at 12 so if SB goes for Smith which I think he will...Manu is a little bit more like the big African....without the decent handling....

 

[BPM]

I'd be perfectly happy to give Dingwall a shot. I do think of him as more of a 13, but I'd regard him as being at a similar level to Chris Harris and Nick Tompkins who have done pretty well at test level for Scotland and Wales.

 

[Geordie]

I'd be surprised if it wasnt

9 Mitchell
10 Marcus Smith
12 Manu
13 Lawrence

Quirke was interesting last weekend in his sub appearance...changed the game a bit...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tomorrow will be an indicator for Quirke - been poor for two seasons, including his starts in pre-season
Was that because he was getting over injuries or because he's not at this level?
Looked good off the bench, like you said, so now he's got that back let's see what he's like starting

 

[Greeno]

Surprise no one has mention Martin is back for Tigers this weekend

 

[Geordie]

Surprise no one has mention Martin is back for Tigers this weekend

Yeah I noticed that, back in at lock...and Watson back aswell...

 

[Geordie]

Tomorrow will be an indicator for Quirke - been poor for two seasons, including his starts in pre-season
Was that because he was getting over injuries or because he's not at this level?
Looked good off the bench, like you said, so now he's got that back let's see what he's like starting

Yes...Warr has been far better and deserves a look in ....but Quirke was noticeable last weekend..for the sheer speed and creativity he seemed to bring...see if it was a fluke or not...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yes...Warr has been far better and deserves a look in ....but Quirke was noticeable last weekend..for the sheer speed and creativity he seemed to bring...see if it was a fluke or not...

Well he definitely won't get a look in with England in that case.