England 2023/24

[Vieux Talonneur]

It does feel like we are constantly reinventing the wheel...

….which is the inevitable consequence of churning coaches. Even if one believes in the same general philosophy as their predecessor they will still do it, and communicate it, differently.

The question remains why there's been the coach churn over time.

 

[BPM]

Why just not use the current defensive structure we have in place and then work on attack. There is no reason why a new defensive coach needs to start from stretch, just use what we have.

Agreed. Maintenance is usually easier than implementation. Now it's in place, arguably we need someone to maintain and tweak it. I think where we will miss Jones is the attention to small details and nuances that less experienced/less talented coaches might not pick up on.

 

[Geordie]

Paul Gustard on England defence coach shortlist

Former England assistant coach Paul Gustard, Oyannax head coach Joe El-Abd, and Stormers assistant Norman Laker are all in contention to replace Felix Jones as England defence coach.

www.bbc.co.uk

Defence coach candidates:
Paul Gustard return
Joe el Abd
Norman Laker.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Tom Curry: ‘The surgeon said you are probably going to retire … I just cried’

Having battled back from a career-threatening hip injury, the Sale and England flanker reflects on a newfound maturity

www.theguardian.com

If not posted already.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Paul Gustard on England defence coach shortlist

Former England assistant coach Paul Gustard, Oyannax head coach Joe El-Abd, and Stormers assistant Norman Laker are all in contention to replace Felix Jones as England defence coach.

www.bbc.co.uk

Defence coach candidates:
Paul Gustard return
Joe el Abd
Norman Laker.

Some comment about JeA being front runner, but apart from being SB's exi uni housemate why is he in this conversation?

5 years coaching forwards, not defence, followed by becoming head coach at Oyonnax in 2019….as far as I can see that's all been in D2 bar last year when they were relegated after finishing bottom of the top 14 with 7 wins in 26 matches. Reports say he's impressive and maybe that's massive over achievement for them, but it doesn't scream international elite.

Also worth noting that he's been in France as player then coach since 09, presumably settled, possibly family. How keen will he really be to uproot? Oyonnax isn't a hop across the Channel like Calais.

 

[Scotty]

Why just not use the current defensive structure we have in place and then work on attack. There is no reason why a new defensive coach needs to start from stretch, just use what we have.

Agreed, but will a new defence coach want to stamp his own brand on it? That's the question. It's very well saying build on the rush defence but if all his defences havnt been that then he isnt the best to carry it on. Odd situation

 

[Geordie]

Some comment about JeA being front runner, but apart from being SB's exi uni housemate why is he in this conversation?

5 years coaching forwards, not defence, followed by becoming head coach at Oyonnax in 2019….as far as I can see that's all been in D2 bar last year when they were relegated after finishing bottom of the top 14 with 7 wins in 26 matches. Reports say he's impressive and maybe that's massive over achievement for them, but it doesn't scream international elite.

Also worth noting that he's been in France as player then coach since 09, presumably settled, possibly family. How keen will he really be to uproot? Oyonnax isn't a hop across the Channel like Calais.

Yeah i completely agree, ive wondered the same but when you troll through bits of information he seems to be held in high esteem by a number of different circles....
I thought Gustard returning would be the one out of those...doesn't he favour a "blitz" style defence?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Some comment about JeA being front runner, but apart from being SB's exi uni housemate why is he in this conversation?

5 years coaching forwards, not defence, followed by becoming head coach at Oyonnax in 2019….as far as I can see that's all been in D2 bar last year when they were relegated after finishing bottom of the top 14 with 7 wins in 26 matches. Reports say he's impressive and maybe that's massive over achievement for them, but it doesn't scream international elite.

Also worth noting that he's been in France as player then coach since 09, presumably settled, possibly family. How keen will he really be to uproot? Oyonnax isn't a hop across the Channel like Calais.

SB? Giving jobs to the boys despite them being unqualified?
Say it ain't so!

 

[BPM]

I would prefer el Abd to Gustard, although of the ones apparently in the mix, Laker is the most interesting IMO.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I would prefer el Abd to Gustard, although of the ones apparently in the mix, Laker is the most interesting IMO.

Because? Scarred by Gustard's time as head coach at Quins?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Because? Scarred by Gustard's time as head coach at Quins?

TBF Gustards time at Quins, and the dramatic turnaround after, is quite damning. The big criticism was he was inflexible and tried to force players to play a way that wasn't suitable. A coach, particularly an international one, needs to be adaptable.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

TBF Gustards time at Quins, and the dramatic turnaround after, is quite damning. The big criticism was he was inflexible and tried to force players to play a way that wasn't suitable. A coach, particularly an international one, needs to be adaptable.

That's true, but head coach is also a very different beast to a specialist role like defence. I've got no strong views on whether he's the right guy or not, but I'd be putting more weight on what he's done as a defence coach with Sarries, Eng and now Stade than the Quins experience.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I would prefer el Abd to Gustard, although of the ones apparently in the mix, Laker is the most interesting IMO.

Times reporting that Laker's not interested and that neither Gustard's nor JeA's clubs are expecting them to go, although that could just be a bargaining position - everyone has a price.

 

[BPM]

Because? Scarred by Gustard's time as head coach at Quins?

A bit. I defended him because I thought he did some good stuff but he came across poorly when he left with a definite sense of sour grapes and as @Ragey Erasmus said, Quins subsequently winning the league doesn't suggest he was getting the best out of the players.

Most importantly though, I don't remember our defence looking anything like as effective as it has recently in his previous stint with England.

Having said that, a very quick look at last season's Top 14 table says SF had the lowest points conceded total which suggests he's done a good job there. Less good so far this season with 77 points conceded in 2 games (joint worst in the league) but then 46 of those came from a heavy defeat in Bordeaux who are a top side.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

None of this would've happened if the RFU just listened to me and hired Forshaw and Blackett in the first place

 

[Reiser99]

None of this would've happened if the RFU just listened to me and hired Forshaw and Blackett in the first place

You say that, but maybe they'd have left by now too.

 

[Scotty]

You say that, but maybe they'd have left by now too.

I really want to know why all these coaches are leaving, pre and post SB. There must be an underline course.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I really want to know why all these coaches are leaving, pre and post SB. There must be an underline course.

Bill Sweeny

 

[BPM]

We don't typically seem to be able to hold on to coaches who aren't English.

I suspect that it's easier to keep the Englishmen because there is a kind of loyalty/pride attached to representing your country.

Perhaps if we had secured Forshaw and Blackett they would still be in post.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

We don't typically seem to be able to hold on to coaches who aren't English.

I suspect that it's easier to keep the Englishmen because there is a kind of loyalty/pride attached to representing your country.

Perhaps if we had secured Forshaw and Blackett they would still be in post.

Engerlund 4 thuh Engerlish!