England 2024/25

[Geordie]

El Abd is confirmed....

Joe El-Abd joins England men's team as defence coach from Autumn Nations Series

Joe El-Abd is the newest appointment to Steve Borthwicks backroom staff; He will join as a defence coach from the Autumn Nations Series; He will continue as director of rugby at Oyonnax until end of 2024/25 season

www.skysports.com

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bloody hell, not even working full time until next season - still coaching Oyonnax and doing England on the side


Edit: Just seen Felix Jones is going to be working out his notice for England working as an analyst but remotely/not in camp

What a bloody mess

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Held to ransom by a French D2 side.

Couple of bits of that press release would have made me really angry if they weren't so palpably nonsense.

We have a good group of players coming through who deserve better. Arundell's looking shrewder by the day.

 

[Geordie]

Bloody hell, not even working full time until next season - still coaching Oyonnax and doing England on the side


Edit: Just seen Felix Jones is going to be working out his notice for England working as an analyst but remotely/not in camp

What a bloody mess

Yeah its not an ideal situation is it.

But hearing reports from France the French seemingly rate him highly....both for winning the ***le with Castres as D coach and for performing miracles with Oyonnax a team whos budget is worse than the falcons! Maybe once Jones moves on and he comes in full time, we'll get a bit of solidity / consistency.

Only time shall tell.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just for once can we hire coaches who are solid and who stick around and perform. No other side in the world manages to make such a monumental **** show of assistant coaches and contracts in general.

 

[Geordie]

Just for once can we hire coaches who are solid and who stick around and perform. No other side in the world manages to make such a monumental **** show of assistant coaches and contracts in general.

Maybe this is the start?

 

[Reiser99]

Maybe this is the start?

Dunno what you're on to be this optimistic, but I obviously need some of it too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

a) It's fine we've got all SBs club coaches joining so it'll be nice and settled
b) It's fine we've got a world cup winning coach joining
c) It's fine he's got his old uni mate joining <-- We are here


I'm guessing this means Sinfield will be leaving camp? The reports before were that he hadn't signed the ludicrous deal he'd been offered because he wanted guarantees around his position rather than just being SB's motivational speaker

Is a bit concerning that that's the case with Sinfield, and also looks to be the reason Jones left

 

[Geordie]

Dunno what you're on to be this optimistic, but I obviously need some of it too.

Ah I'm generally a positive person unless it involves the falcons.

Honestly I have no idea what El Abd will offer...but he gets a very positive feedback from France so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

Whilst ive always backed SB, I do agree he needs to bring some consistency / stability in now...and coaches in the roles they actually want to be in, long term.

Only then will we really know if he's the right man....and the issues with Jones, Walters and Sinfield currently are raising more questions than answers.

 

[Saintjay]

I always thought the coaches issue was an EJ thing. He wasn't going to win boss of the year. Management style wasn't for everyone.

Now we are in the same situation with Borthwick. I can't help but feel it's a system and culture issue more at the RFU.

How many posts did we have on EJ not keeping a settled coaching team yet here we are again. I don't think Borthwick is a contributing factor as much as Eddie was but still....

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Times has listed out England's defence coaches since Farrell:

Gustard 2016-18

Mitchell gets a long service award for 18-21

Seibold 21-22

Hodgson 22-22

Sinfield 22-23

Jones 23-24

El Abd 24-

Just a bit sobering to see it laid out like that. No way to carry on. For me, the blame can't lie anywhere other than with the respective head coaches.

 

[Scotty]

Times has listed out England's defence coaches since Farrell:

Gustard 2016-18

Mitchell gets a long service award for 18-21

Seibold 21-22

Hodgson 22-22

Sinfield 22-23

Jones 23-24

El Abd 24-

Just a bit sobering to see it laid out like that. No way to carry on. For me, the blame can't lie anywhere other than with the respective head coaches.

I thought Mitchell was an attack coach?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought Mitchell was an attack coach?

And I thought he was forwards

 

[Geordie]

Didnt he cover both at different times...Forwards and D coach.

 

[Geordie]

England rumoured to be talking to Phil Morrow of Saracens as a possible replacement for Aled Walters

 

[Geordie]

Seemingly the Morrow link has caused concerns as he would have to continue with Saracens for the season as per El Abd at Oyannax...

But Morrow would have a direct say in what players were available for other clubs games/ aswell as theyre conditioning levels / iniury status etc..which wouldn't go down well with other clubs.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's a hard list to get England recognition though. Any other country got so many good open sides?

Underhill
Earl
Curry T
Curry B
Pearson
Pepper
W Evans

Not saying that's the correct order, just how I thought of the players. Imagine that quality at prop!

Just moved this from the Prem thread.

Yes and no in terms of our strength at 7. We've got some great options, but…..

Underhill previously and now especially T Curry have suffered badly from injuries. Will either make old bones in rugby terms?

Is Earl an out and out 7 or a utility? Same question for Pearson to a degree.

B Curry is very good domestically and arguably should have been given more chances over time, but he's not really convinced when he has.

W Evans has perhaps been unlucky to have never really been in the conversation, but he hasn't and probably won't now.

I'm not putting Pepper in a white shirt just yet but I'm liking what I'm seeing.

You can argue that the best of the lot on current form is J Willis. Obviously unavailable, but hopefully that will change one day.

Also wonder if we're heading away from the days of any 2 of T Curry, Underhill and Earl (& J Willis) back towards specialists.

At 8 T Willis must now be on the radar and he, Barbeary and even Mercer don't really play anywhere else. If you want a big guy in the back row none of CCS, Chessum or Martin are anything other than 6 (maybe CCS will go to 8 in time, but not yet).

Plenty of options for SB and whoever's on his coaching staff this week to chew over……

 

[Which Tyler]

How England's specialist training camps are already moulding next generation
Position-specific coaching clinics for the most promising talents are preparing them for what lies ahead

I find this to be both shocking, and sadly, unsurprising

Quote:
"We had a good chat this morning to the scrum-halves about what they were working on… and none of them said their pass," Parkin adds. "Actually, that's their ticket to play. They were saying things like their running game. For me, their pass has got to be the number one thing all the time.
"It was: 'Well lads, you might be good at those things, but if you're not good at kicking and passing, you won't get on the pitch to show that'. We run these camps, to support them on what's to come."

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

[archive.ph]

No backrowers invited

England Men's Pathway 2024 front-five camp squad (includes academy and school)

Archie Appleby (Northampton Saints, Sedbergh School)
Diamond Ayiehfor (Leicester Tigers, Warwick School)
Jonno Balding (Gloucester Rugby, Radley College)
Sam Bland (Yorkshire Academy, Bishop Burton College)
Tom Davis (Sale Sharks, St Mary's College, Crosby)
Mathis Dehauteur (Saracens, Oaklands College)
Marlon Farouk-Roy (Saracens, Oaklands College)
Kealan Freeman-Price (Gloucester Rugby, Hartpury)
Jerold Gorleku (Harlequins, Bishop Wand School)
Kieran Hill (Bristol Bears, Richard Huish 6th Form College)
Dylan Hodkinson (Sale Sharks, Wirral Grammar School)
Ollie Hull (Northampton Saints, Stamford School)
Henry Laidlow (Harlequins, Trinity School)
George Leyland (Bristol Bears, Clifton College)
Tubuna Maka (Leicester Tigers, Brooksby College)
Rory McKnight (Bath Rugby, Wellington College)
Bronson Mellowes (Leicester Tigers, Brooksby College)
Alan Poku (Saracens, Bishop Wand School)
Riley Raikes (Exeter Chiefs, Truro College)
Oli Scola (Northampton Saints, Northampton School for Boys)
Oliver Spence (Yorkshire Academy, Grammar School at Leeds)
Ethan Surrey (Bristol Bears, City of Oxford College)
Oscar Thomas (Bath Rugby, Wellington College)
Sonny Tonga'uiha (Northampton Saints, Northampton School for Boys)
Elliot Williams (Harlequins, Gordon's School)


England Men's Pathway 2024 specialist backs camp squad (includes academy and school)

Ollie Batson (Exeter Chiefs, Exeter School)
Noah Caluori (Saracens, Mill Hill School)
Felix Champain (Harlequins, Worth School)
George Dufty (Gloucester Rugby, Bromsgrove School)
Ajay Edwards (Newcastle Falcons, Durham School)
Lochie Glackin (Leicester Tigers, Denstone College)
Sonny Goode (Northampton Saints, Bloxham School)
Ollie Harris (Bristol Bears, Clifton College)
Charlie Heard (Saracens, Berkhamsted)
Tom Jacques (Sale Sharks, Sedbergh School)
Ryan Jones (Saracens, Mill Hill School)
Finn Keylock (Saracens, Bishop Wand School)
Bruno Lamb (Bristol Bears, SGS College)
James Linegar (Bath Rugby, Kingswood School)
Henry Lumley (Northampton Saints, Finborough School)
Nick Lynagh (Harlequins, Hampton Boys)
Isaac Mears (Bath Rugby, Beechen Cliff School)
George Newman (Exeter Chiefs, Truro College)
Theo Povey (Harlequins, Gordon's School)
Aidan Pugh (Bath Rugby, Piggott School)
Evan Russell (Bristol Bears, SGS College)
Tristan Saunders (Harlequins, Dulwich)
Hugh Shields (Northampton Saints, Northampton School for Boys)
Asa Stewart-Harris (Saracens, St Albans)
Joe Taylor (Harlequins, Cranleigh School)
James Townsend (Leicester Tigers, Warwick School)
Declan Treacey (Bath Rugby, Beechen Cliff)
Sam Winters (Bath Rugby, Harrow School)
Victor Worsnip (Bristol Bears, Clifton College)

 

[Crash Hamster]

I'm always surprised how poor the passing is from professional scrum halves. Hitting a static target in training? Great. Under pressure, in a match, hitting a moving target? Anywhere within a 4m radius of 'abdominal height, just out in front' seems to be the norm (to include 'stright into the ground', 'accidental miss pass' and 'miles forward.')

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

CCS, Chessum or Martin are anything other than 6 (maybe CCS will go to 8 in time, but not yet).

CCS was good at 8 for quins this week IMO. Will probably play there until Dombrandt comes back I imagine