England 2023/24

[TRF_Olyy]

Sounds like Arundell is signing a new contract with racing next week, so that's the end of that saga for another season or two

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Sounds like Arundell is signing a new contract with racing next week, so that's the end of that saga for another season or two

That would be so depressing. The guy's only played the equivalent of 19 pro games, but is such an obvious talent. Pretty quickly he ought to be a granteed fixture in match day 23s and a starter soon enough.

Lots of moving parts, but wonder if he didn't like some of what he saw in the RWC.

Longer term plus side. If anyone's got a track record for developing younger players it's Lancaster.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

That would be so depressing. The guy's only played the equivalent of 19 pro games, but is such an obvious talent. Pretty quickly he ought to be a granteed fixture in match day 23s and a starter soon enough.

Lots of moving parts, but wonder if he didn't like some of what he saw in the RWC.

Longer term plus side. If anyone's got a track record for developing younger players it's Lancaster.

Yeah I don't mind it that much if he stays away for a couple of years. Right now there are better wingers than him but after a couple of years of development with Racing he could be a superstar. That's if he actually comes back though…

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I thought a season in France away from the international spotlight would be good for Arundell, but sounds like the extension will be 2 years so we won't see him in an Eng shirt until 2026 at the earliest.

Seems like he only found out that he wouldn't be eligible for the 24 6N recently despite Sweeney's earlier pronouncement. No way to treat anyone - maybe he'd have made a different decision.

And in a further kick in the teeth it seems like he'll actually be paid less in France than he would have got with Bath / central contract.

Good luck to him but what a shambles. It's one thing to lose players in the latter stages of their careers who need a change of scene or boost to their pension, but losing outstanding promising talent is worrying.

 

[Geordie]

He is a very promising young talent....but there's actually quite a few of those in the prem at the moment, all with different strengths and skill sets.

SB needs to get it right.

 

[stus768]

I thought a season in France away from the international spotlight would be good for Arundell, but sounds like the extension will be 2 years so we won't see him in an Eng shirt until 2026 at the earliest.

Seems like he only found out that he wouldn't be eligible for the 24 6N recently despite Sweeney's earlier pronouncement. No way to treat anyone - maybe he'd have made a different decision.

And in a further kick in the teeth it seems like he'll actually be paid less in France than he would have got with Bath / central contract.

Good luck to him but what a shambles. It's one thing to lose players in the latter stages of their careers who need a change of scene or boost to their pension, but losing outstanding promising talent is worrying.

Staying and getting JIFF status is probably very good for his future salary prospects.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'd be aggrieved if he'd have been offered a central contract compared to many more rounded players who have shown more consistency.

I might be wrong on this but it screams of the senior RFU bods getting involved as a publicity event rather than picking the best players.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Staying and getting JIFF status is probably very good for his future salary prospects.

JIFF takes 3 years to kick in though. Come 2028 it'll be fun to watch him and Penuad wrecking havoc for Les Blues.

I'd be aggrieved if he'd have been offered a central contract compared to many more rounded players who have shown more consistency.

I might be wrong on this but it screams of the senior RFU bods getting involved as a publicity event rather than picking the best players.

I've no issue with it. He'd have been a regular soon enough, at least in the 23, and very few other back 3 players really scream 'pick me'. Watson (if fit) and Steward (who's taken a lot of flak) are the only certs. Would you have given one to Itoje in 2014?

Agree that the RFU have handled it badly but that's kind of taken as read.

Anyway interested to see how both Arundell and CCS go today.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Come 2028 it'll be fun to watch him and Penuad wrecking havoc for Les Blues.

I don't know if you're joking but he can never play for France - think it's Cyprus, Scotland and Wales that he's eligible for
You can be internationally locked to a different country and still earn/keep your JIFF status

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don't know if you're joking but he can never play for France - think it's Cyprus, Scotland and Wales that he's eligible for
You can be internationally locked to a different country and still earn/keep your JIFF status

Yes I was (ish). But if his earning potential does increase with JIFF status and he's settled over there, wouldn't he only then have to stay a couple more years to qualify on residency? That's where 2028 came from.

Unlikely but not impossible.

 

[LIONSxv]

Utterly depressing state of affairs. Looks to me that he has been screwed over the RFU.

I don't buy their are more rounded players nonsense. If England want to win anything you need x factor players. We have some great options in the prem, but their is less than a handful with X factor pace, strength and quick feet. Radwan is the only other with similar speed and feet

Happy to be corrected, but can anyone signpost to me a team that won a WC with a 3/4 that wholly consisted of nuts and bolts players ? I can't think of any on the professional era

Look at the SA back three they fielded in the WC final. Arendse and Williemse are hardly known for their defensive prowess.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I doubt he ever comes back when the goalposts change because the RFU messed up negotiations. With either said want to negotiate with each other again.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

wouldn't he only then have to stay a couple more years to qualify on residency?

You can't switch nations on residency only on blood, though they'll probably change that down the line to ruin international rugby even more


Looking into the jiff thing more, unless the rules have changed since this article, it doesn't look like he can get the status:

a player must have been registered with the FFR for at least five years before turning 23, or have spent three seasons in an FFR-approved training centre before turning 21

Be a bit silly if he could be counted as French produced when he moved there as a senior player off the back of a rugby world cup

 

[stus768]

You can't switch nations on residency only on blood, though they'll probably change that down the line to ruin international rugby even more


Looking into the jiff thing more, unless the rules have changed since this article, it doesn't look like he can get the status:


Be a bit silly if he could be counted as French produced when he moved there as a senior player off the back of a rugby world cup

From the Times article could be wrong tho:
Arundell's value will rise in France at the end of his new contract. In France if a player, regardless of their nationality, joins a club while or before they are 20 and stay for three years, they become classed as a homegrown player, or a joueurs issus des filières de formation (JIFF). That is important as each Top 14 club must have an average of 16 JIFF players in their match-day 23-man squads across the league season, or face punishments. If they average more than 16 they gain financial credits.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You can't switch nations on residency only on blood, though they'll probably change that down the line to ruin international rugby even more

Ah yes, thanks for putting me straight on that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

From the Times article could be wrong tho:
Arundell's value will rise in France at the end of his new contract. In France if a player, regardless of their nationality, joins a club while or before they are 20 and stay for three years, they become classed as a homegrown player, or a joueurs issus des filières de formation (JIFF). That is important as each Top 14 club must have an average of 16 JIFF players in their match-day 23-man squads across the league season, or face punishments. If they average more than 16 they gain financial credits.

Interesting, and also very lax/dumb imo

 

[Geordie]

Are people not getting a bit OTT...

The lad is big potential yes...but we have quality young wingers in the prem all with different strengths...

Murley is a genuine try scorer...and actually incredibly fast. Roebuck looks a good one to me. He's 6'2, and just shy of 16st already at 22 and the boy can gallop. Add in others like Aaron Reed, Sleightholme, Radwan, Freeman (maybe his future is at 13) And we have alot of potential to work with...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I'm not that fussed tbh - in fact I'm glad the RFU have put their foot down re: playing abroad.

He's a very good finisher and a very very good athlete - have we seen anything else, yet, though? Lots to work on in his game, and I think doing that at club level rather than international will be better for him in the long run

He can do three years in France, come back, and still be one of the youngest players in the England side (at 23 he would be the 2nd youngest back, excluding himself, and 4th youngest player in general in our RWC squad)

 

[LIONSxv]

Are people not getting a bit OTT...

The lad is big potential yes...but we have quality young wingers in the prem all with different strengths...

Murley is a genuine try scorer...and actually incredibly fast. Roebuck looks a good one to me. He's 6'2, and just shy of 16st already at 22 and the boy can gallop. Add in others like Aaron Reed, Sleightholme, Radwan, Freeman (maybe his future is at 13) And we have alot of potential to work with...

All are great

Non are X factor though barring Radwan. I'd have Freeman on the other wing

The difference between someone been able to sprint sub 11 seconds and have quick feet at the top level in invaluable.

If England want to genuinely challenge for a WC they need at least one back with genuine pace and footwork

 

[Geordie]

All are great

Non are X factor though barring Radwan. I'd have Freeman on the other wing

The difference between someone been able to sprint sub 11 seconds and have quick feet at the top level in invaluable.

If England want to genuinely challenge for a WC they need at least one back with genuine pace and footwork

Are they not? What's x factor?

I've seen Murley, Roebuck and the others all do very exciting things, create tries from nothing..I bet Murley and Roebuck have a decent highlights reel already.....