England 2023/24

[Vieux Talonneur]

He's young, a big unit, powerful in the carry and aggressive in the tackle. Also may mature into a genuine 6 / 8 option which we don't really have. Lot of learning to do but he's a talent for sure. Just needs (game) time.

In time I think his game might end up working better on the more attritional international stage. We'll have to see whether Quins was the right move for him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not sure I really get the hype around CCS? Sure he's promising but there are plenty of good players ahead of him.

Yeah looks like a bit of second season syndrome, was excellent for Irish but then had a poor u20s campaign
Still insanely young, I wouldn't have him in the England conversation yet

Are players fit enough...Borthwicks comments would suggest theyre not.

Talking out his arse, though, wasn't he?

Don't buy that the Prem is a poor defensive league when it produces so many international defence coaches

 

[Geordie]

Yeah looks like a bit of second season syndrome, was excellent for Irish but then had a poor u20s campaign
Still insanely young, I wouldn't have him in the England conversation yet

Talking out his arse, though, wasn't he?

Don't buy that the Prem is a poor defensive league when it produces so many international defence coaches

No-ones talking about CCS as in contention now though are they?

And was SB talking out his arse? I'm not sure he was.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The key is making the prem itself a breeding /testing ground...which I don't think it currently is.
Defence is often optional...teams trying to play 7s style rugby which doesn't prepare kids for international rugby...which ISNT 7s. Are players fit enough...Borthwicks comments would suggest theyre not.

I agree with what Baxter said the other week about props and scrummaging etc we need to be producing forwards who want to do the key skills of their role. Ie Props scrummage like tanks...not being playmakers in the midfield.
We are producing the players but the path from u16, U18 and u20 to the seniors seems to be the issue. May e the new training camps will help address that.

We do have players coming through though...Ollie Chessum is very young and now a key member, George Martin following quickly, .Ollies brother Lewis will be coming through very soon..Phil Brantingham at prop starting for us now looks a powerful option...and he will be playing against big Painter on Sunday a proper old school Tight head who Baxter is rejuvenating...and could well be in the 6n squad.
Cunningham-South an option coming through...

That's just a handful of names

I really like Alex Coles at Saints who's playing well tonight...

Borthwick is old school...and he'll make sure the players coming in...have to do their job properly

I really like Alex Coles as well. Just not sure where he'd fit in. Is he big enough for lock at international level or is he going to get enough game time at 6 at club level to warrant him playing there for England.

He's got a wealth of skills and has bulked up really well over the last couple of years but the competition but I'm interested to see where we play him week in week out as I'm sure that will dictate how England see him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Rugby paper reckon Arundell's gonna get a central contact to help tempt him back to the premiership

Wonder if a central contract would be enough for them to be in contention when abroad?
"we'll pay half his salary as long as you write into his contract he gets X amount of rest and is available all year round".
Hope not, tbf

 

[LIONSxv]

Rugby paper reckon Arundell's gonna get a central contact to help tempt him back to the premiership

Wonder if a central contract would be enough for them to be in contention when abroad?
"we'll pay half his salary as long as you write into his contract he gets X amount of rest and is available all year round".
Hope not, tbf

I wonder how much input Borthwck has on who gets awarded these Contracts. Clear to me that Borthwick would not put Arundell in any meaningful game, or even give him significant time off the bench.
Yet if he awarded a central contract I'm
assuming the RFU will want him in all match day 22 he is available

 

[LIONSxv]

Tommy Freeman's Gabriel Ibitoye to be part of the six nations this year. Both have really stepped their game up and both have a bit of X factor that we have seriously lacked for a while. Both are quick and strong

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Tommy Freeman's Gabriel Ibitoye to be part of the six nations this year. Both have really stepped their game up and both have a bit of X factor that we have seriously lacked for a while. Both are quick and strong

Yeah no thanks to Gabs.

Really hope it works out for the bloke in the long term but his non attacking stuff if gash

 

[LIONSxv]

Yeah no thanks to Gabs.

Really hope it works out for the bloke in the long term but his non attacking stuff if gash

His chase has massively improved. He offers more in all facets of the game imo than Malins.
England are desperate for line breakers. As we didn't have any in the WC

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

His chase has massively improved. He offers more in all facets of the game imo than Malins.
England are desperate for line breakers. As we didn't have any in the WC

There is a long list of people I'd have there first tbh

 

[Crash Hamster]

There is a long list of people I'd have there first tbh

Two tries for England reject Ollie Hassell-Collins yesterday...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As we didn't have any in the WC

I mean that's down to Borthwick not lack of eligible players tbf

 

[LIONSxv]

I mean that's down to Borthwick not lack of eligible players tbf

Agreed,you could make a genuine case for none of May, Daly and Malins been inside the top five best wingers in England at the time of selection

 

[Geordie]

Murley
Sleightholme
Hassle Collins
Ibatoye
Radwan
Feyi Waboso (if he picks England)
Reed
Roebuck
Lynagh
Freeman
Daly
Lawrence

If we can't get a good 13 and wing set up from those...then we're in trouble...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Feyi-Waboso will 100% choose Wales, he's only played coy in the press because they were trying to goad him into saying he should be there now
If he's not called up for the 6N then he definitely will be in the summer - they capped Tshiunza way before he was ready, to lock him in, and Gatland has always loved capping wingers as young as possible

 

[Geordie]

Feyi-Waboso will 100% choose Wales, he's only played coy in the press because they were trying to goad him into saying he should be there now
If he's not called up for the 6N then he definitely will be in the summer - they capped Tshiunza way before he was ready, to lock him in, and Gatland has always loved capping wingers as young as possible

Yeah I thought that would be the case aswell...

But still from that list...adding in Steward, Carpenter, Hodge etc..we should be able to build a cracking 13, wing, fb set up...

 

[Lé Ddanno]

There is a long list of people I'd have there first tbh

He was pretty poor at Quins (like 3 years ago now) but if he keeps improving his form as he has so far this season then get him into a camp at least. If Sleeve Bookcase isn't going to look at Murley, Freeman, Radwan, OHC then we could do worse.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

He was pretty poor at Quins (like 3 years ago now) but if he keeps improving his form as he has so far this season then get him into a camp at least. If Sleeve Bookcase isn't going to look at Murley, Freeman, Radwan, OHC then we could do worse.

In between which he was poor in france and then played in tel aviv...

All I'm saying is the bloke is electric ball in hand, but far from the best winger we have available. Maybe top 10/15

 

[Reiser99]

In between which he was poor in france and then played in tel aviv...

All I'm saying is the bloke is electric ball in hand, but far from the best winger we have available. Maybe top 10/15

It's the problem with some highlight reel players. Yes they so something exciting, but do they have the nuts and bolts in the rest of their game?

 

[LIONSxv]

It's the problem with some highlight reel players. Yes they so something exciting, but do they have the nuts and bolts in the rest of their game?

How have the nuts and bolts 3/4 been doing...tearing it up ? No tries at the WC for nuts and bolts players
This is the problem with the English mentality, we don't pick players as they might make an error. On the other hand they might create or score multiple tries
What the "highlights players" also inadvertently do is the change how teams defend. It's so much easy to set a defence when you are 99% sure your not going to get gassed or stepped

Look at SAs back three, none are nuts and bolts players. It's definitely the case of both Willamse and Arendse that they are lacking at times in defence...yet they still played