[2024 Six Nations] Scotland vs England - 24/02/24

[LIONSxv]

It's partly unfamiliarity with those around them and style of play, but also a reflection of the gap between prem and international - it's harder, faster with less room for error and under way more scrutiny. Performing in your comfort zone is one thing, but totally different when the pressure's on.

Apart from Russell, what Scottish players stand out in Europe? The level of the two Scottish sides has been proven time and again to be no better than the best in the premiership. If we were talking Leinster and Toulouse I would agree with you

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Christie and Redpath both added a ton off the bench yesterday,

Blaming the premiership for players not performing for England just ignores all the other countries who have Prem players in who don't turn into the talent-sapped-players from Space Jam every time an international period rolls around

 

[Crash Hamster]

Christie and Redpath both added a ton off the bench yesterday,

Blaming the premiership for players not performing for England just ignores all the other countries who have Prem players in who don't turn into the talent-sapped-players from Space Jam every time an international period rolls around

Yes, that Russell bloke seemed to be doing ok, too. England's blitz defence was certainly pressurising Scotland, and yet...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Apart from Russell, what Scottish players stand out in Europe? The level of the two Scottish sides has been proven time and again to be no better than the best in the premiership. If we were talking Leinster and Toulouse I would agree with you

Not so much standing out individually but they have inherent understandings through playing together at Edinburgh and Glasgow. Even Redpath and Russell are club mates.

When you've got a Sarries flanker at 8, a Quin at 9, the Sale 10, the Bath (13 at) 12 and Chiefs 13 things have to be incredibly precise under more pressure. Anything less gets exposed.

You also look at our league table - Saints top, then Quins, then Bath, none of whom play remotely like England.

But to your, and Olyy's points, Scotland are better coached and have a couple of X factor players.

 

[LIONSxv]

Not so much standing out individually but they have inherent understandings through playing together at Edinburgh and Glasgow. Even Redpath and Russell are club mates.

When you've got a Sarries flanker at 8, a Quin at 9, the Sale 10, the Bath (13 at) 12 and Chiefs 13 things have to be incredibly precise under more pressure. Anything less gets exposed.

You also look at our league table - Saints top, then Quins, then Bath, none of whom play remotely like England.

But to your, and Olyy's points, Scotland are better coached and have a couple of X factor players.

France seem to do okay with even more teams

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

France seem to do okay with even more teams

France played their best rugby when they had a playmaking axis of DuPont, Ntamack and Ramos running the show. All 3 of those play together at Toulouse.

Even now they have Lucu and Jalibert together at 9 and 10 who are both Bordeaux.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

France played their best rugby when they had a playmaking axis of DuPont, Ntamack and Ramos running the show. All 3 of those play together at Toulouse.

Even now they have Lucu and Jalibert together at 9 and 10 who are both Bordeaux.

Exactly that. Plus France took a huge step back to develop a squad together with the single aim of their home RWC (although not a luxury that would be afforded to most).

 

[Reiser99]

Tbh I wouldn't mind if we took a step back, developed some younger players as a unit and lost as part of a long term plan. However, I don't see the long term plan. How does Borthwick want England to play at their best? If it's still punting it up in the air and trying to knock it back then we will never win anything. Yes it can work, but it's a limited tactic that just gives possession away.

I just want something to make me think Borthwick has something in mind, but at the moment it feels like he wants to be seen doing everything, winning, developing players, developing tactics and we're not doing any of it well.

 

[Grizwald]

As per a previous post it will be interesting to see how England A go today-a side chucked together with very limited time in training.

Club combinations obviously help but this lot have been together for weeks and will have many hours training together.

 

[Wasps92]

Christie and Redpath both added a ton off the bench yesterday,

Blaming the premiership for players not performing for England just ignores all the other countries who have Prem players in who don't turn into the talent-sapped-players from Space Jam every time an international period rolls around

Also South Africa have players playing on multiple continents in all kinds of different teams and styles yet they are able to come together and win World Cups.

We need to stop making excuses for these players and coaches. They are consistently less than the sum of their parts whilst representing England.

 

[Crash Hamster]

France played their best rugby when they had a playmaking axis of DuPont, Ntamack and Ramos running the show. All 3 of those play together at Toulouse.

Even now they have Lucu and Jalibert together at 9 and 10 who are both Bordeaux.

So would you prefer Mitchell, F. Smith, Furbank or wait until 2025 and go Care, M. Smith, Green? I'm not entirely sure how much I'm joking, but if England were to pick club combinations, we'd also have to play in a Saints or Quins way.

Trying to play Borthball with players selected because of their attacking prowess seems odd. I know people say 'you can't play like that at internetional level' but a) we've nevder tried and b) we can't play the way we're trying to play at international level either.

 

[LIONSxv]

Apart from Russell, what Scottish players stand out in Europe? The level of the two Scottish sides has been proven time and again to be no better than the best in the premiership. If we were talking Leinster and Toulouse I would agree with you

France played their best rugby when they had a playmaking axis of DuPont, Ntamack and Ramos running the show. All 3 of those play together at Toulouse.

Even now they have Lucu and Jalibert together at 9 and 10 who are both Bordeaux.

White and Russel have not played any club rugby together. If the problem and solution is club half backs playing for the same club,we should be good to go when M Smith is fit ?

 

[Grizwald]

Watching the England A game I'm not sure what Borthwick sees in Roots over Pearson.

 

[AlRums]

Russell having a 100% kicking record in this 6N helps. I don't know if anyone matches that or not

 

[General Melchett]

Was pleasantly surprised with Millar-Mills. Granted I haven't seen much of him or Hepburn for their clubs but some of the pre match comments on here had me concerned. When he came on as an HIA replacement for Fagerson I was worried with that first scrum penalty but it looked like he was harshly penalised v Genge looking at the replay. The scrum held up better than I expected in the last 20 and he also won an excellent turnover in the second half. Ashman shouting maul was pretty funny - thought he did well too. Andy Christie looked good - would like to see him get a start against Italy. Scott Cummings was also excellent and managed a nice steal in the lineout that led to one of Duhan's tries.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Also South Africa have players playing on multiple continents in all kinds of different teams and styles yet they are able to come together and win World Cups.

Yep, although they've been pretty consistent in both style and selection. And if you have a monster, aggressive, experienced pack you're always giving yourself a chance.

We need to stop making excuses for these players and coaches. They are consistently less than the sum of their parts whilst representing England.

Which by its very definition is poor coaching.

Agree with what you're saying, but I'd also ask how many of our players would be in serious consideration for a European 23, let alone a world 23. Or on a Lions tour.

 

[AlRums]

Borthwick demands explanation for England’s ‘hot potato’ collapse

Steve Borthwick will demand answers from his players for the damaging Six Nations defeat in Scotland

www.theguardian.com

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The England squad & coaches looking at who to blame:

 

[Wasps92]

Borthwick demands explanation for England’s ‘hot potato’ collapse

Steve Borthwick will demand answers from his players for the damaging Six Nations defeat in Scotland

www.theguardian.com

Sick of hearing it. The same words from the same players for four years.