[2024 Six Nations] Italy vs England - 03/02/24

[spursindevon]

I think people are being a bit harsh on Italy, in days gone by, England would have won by a good 20 points. Italy kept pushing until the end, I think they will give both Scotland and Wales a good game.

 

[Wasps92]

I think people are being a bit harsh on Italy, in days gone by, England would have won by a good 20 points. Italy kept pushing until the end, I think they will give both Scotland and Wales a good game.

They're certainly improving.

It just felt like the three times in the game they put more than a few phases together England's defence capitulated which was both rather annoying and slightly worrying with sterner tests to come.

 

[Geordie]

England's midfield lacked a bit of power and creativity balance.

England will improve...that's the start...
Others will disagree...and hoope that SB doesn't come good.

 

[Geordie]

Dingwall...9 tackles .....5 missed
Ouch

 

[higgik]

Dingwall...9 tackles .....5 missed
Ouch

Ford at 10 did not help Dingwall.
Smith F should start.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You want your 10 to make your 12s tackles?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You want your 10 to make your 12s tackles?

Bring back Brad Barrett

 

[Wasps92]

How long is Lawrence out for? I thought Dingwall was pants tbh.

 

[Jashay]

Not sure on Lawrence. The Bath statement said they were aiming for him to be back for some of the 6N but didn't give a firm date

 

[Geordie]

I think Slade was stood at 12 for quite alot ....but clearly the partnership didn't work.

But would either of them had started if Manu, Lawrence or even Marchant were available.
I see Marchant has signed for Saracens next season...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I see Marchant has signed for Saracens next season...

He's denying it on social media but the video kinda looks like the camera man has him at gun point so probably just Stade trying to stop people asking
I reckon he'll go there

 

[Reiser99]

I feel like almost every single one of your posts for the last year is a cut and paste.

So I've been thinking. Spell out how this game was a positive overall.

I want to say I can see an improvement, but whatever improvements there are, are usually small and often come at the expense of another area of the game. Yes we ran a bit more with ball in hand, but our attack was still pretty blunt overall. Our kicking game either needs to be support by excellent runners or excellent defence, of which we didn't really have either. I don't think the backrow worked overall. While Roots may have got man of the match, we definitely weren't bossing the breakdown. Scrum was so so. Lineout was good overall. We had silly penalties and a silly yellow. Yes we won, but I still don't see how Borthwick is developing a winning side.

So please tell me how things will get better other than there was some improvement, he took over at a difficult time, it will take time etc...

One of the key issues we said was that the national teams performance is actually hurting English rugby as a whole, especially if Twickenham isn't a sell out. I'm still of the opinion that English Rugby could crash if it doesn't turn itself around soon, so waiting for things to improve isn't really a luxury we have.

 

[Geordie]

He's denying it on social media but the video kinda looks like the camera man has him at gun point so probably just Stade trying to stop people asking
I reckon he'll go there

Same as Falcons have denied Brantingham is going to Saracens...and he even liked a tweet saying he was going...

Diamond has since confirmed it.

 

[higgik]

You want your 10 to make your 12s tackles?

No the other way round.
12 covering for 10s lack of tackling.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No the other way round.
12 covering for 10s lack of tackling.

Except ford did as much tackling as our 7 and 13, so that doesn't really add up

 

[Geordie]

So please tell me how things will get better other than there was some improvement, he took over at a difficult time, it will take time etc...

OK well...everyone knows I'm a glass half full guy bit here's my thoughts on the whole thing.

Italy at home new coach, club rugby flying with a core of Benneton players...cohesion. they were up for this and may well beat a few others this 6 nations.

England, New coaches, new players, new tactics...

Attack
Less stupid kicks a vague resemblance of an attack suggesting they're actually trying to bring an attack in which Ive suggested will happen...using Freeman as a roving winger popping up everywhere.

Aside from Freeman there was little to celebrate though in attacking terms so clearly lots of work to be done...which is expected. I doubt we'll see that midfield ever again when all players are available.

Defence
The defence came good in the world Cup but with Felix Jones they've clearly changed the tactics again. First game, don't expect perfection...again...only games will sort that out...getting used to the tactics and having the first choice players in place.

Breakdown
Became a real weapon of strength in the world Cup...but was a shambles this game. But again...personnel changes, tactical changes...

Individual performances
Many players looked rusty and not at the races. Need time to get up to speed....Underhill, Earl, Obano, Cole..efc etc

Is Chessum and itoje the right combo for our engine room...I'm not sure.

And I'm bored hearing "well Ireland....blah blah"

They're effectively Leinster with a few additions. They train day in day out together and generally cherry pick the best young talent available.

Even france weren't up and running...

 

[BPM]

@Reiser99 I just don't see what the relentless negativity achieves? Clearly, I don't actually ignore your posts, but I might as well considering they're all pretty much the same. I don't want to be mean, but by now, we all know what you think … I don't know why you need to tell us again, again and again?

You seem to think there's bad or good and nothing in between. I'm not under any illusions about where we are, but I just don't understand how you're expecting us to make a quantum leap in performance overnight?

Personally, I thought there were some encouraging areas and with the exception of Dingwall (who I do rate), the debutants performed pretty well. It doesn't feel like the dawn of an exciting new era, but it does feel like a bit of an improvement on where we were.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

using Freeman as a roving winger popping up everywhere

Tbf we did this with May before, it's not new - it's why Arundell's stats stood out as so poor in his final hame, because even without an attacking game plan the other wingers were offering themselves as options
Freeman's just very very good so made more of the few opportunities he had

England, New coaches

I don't think that's an excuse anymore, it's been over a year - new defence coach, sure, but the old one is still there


I think next week is when we can start judging whether we're improving - as it stands we've gotten our worst ever result vs Italy and were outscored by them, I struggle to see that as the start of something good, even if there were a few glimpses (because we've had glimpses before but not built on them)

 

[Jimbo]

worth watching the game but in reality Italy came within one try decision of winning . could easily have gone the other way

Not sure how you have arrived here, if we are talking about the Mitchel try it was at the start of the second half so most of a half to play, had that not have been given the second have would of changed, your making it sound like a last play thing which it was far from.

 

[Geordie]

Tbf we did this with May before, it's not new - it's why Arundell's stats stood out as so poor in his final hame, because even without an attacking game plan the other wingers were offering themselves as options
Freeman's just very very good so made more of the few opportunities he had


I don't think that's an excuse anymore, it's been over a year - new defence coach, sure, but the old one is still there


I think next week is when we can start judging whether we're improving - as it stands we've gotten our worst ever result vs Italy and were outscored by them, I struggle to see that as the start of something good, even if there were a few glimpses (because we've had glimpses before but not built on them)

Coaches have been moved around and have new tactics to work with...and new players. Do you expect a top class performance? Your deluded if you do.

May has done that role but not to success for a few years. Finally we have a winger who can do it successfully. So SB isnt that stupid...using a tactics that works.

Km sure over this 6n he'll also work put which player are good enough and which aren't.

I'm beginning to think people just dislike SB.