[2024 Six Nations] Italy vs England - 03/02/24

[cwmni]

It's only racism if it's irrational

rational racism ?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've seen nothing to suggest England will not be torn apart by every other team in the tournament. All of them can get the ball wide and we seem to flat out refuse to defend out wide.

 

[McTallshort]

I've seen nothing to suggest England will not be torn apart by every other team in the tournament. All of them can get the ball wide and we seem to flat out refuse to defend out wide.

True. England's defence looked very Narrow

 

[higgik]

Would like to see Furbank at FB next week, with Freeman and Steward on wings, gradually building to a Freeman, F-W, Furbank back 3.

 

[Geordie]

For a while you thought there might be an upset but we closed Italy down in the 2nd half and didn't really look like losing. Italy though had the players to conjure some inspiration and our defence was a bit disorganised so they always had a puncher's chance. Still literally our worst ever result against them and odds on they'll be whitewashed again.

The good: Freeman, defensive line speed - suspiciously fast at times, attacking the Italian line out. Roots was fine but when everyone's available we have better. And, er…..otherwise just a bit meh.

Like Chessum a lot but I think he lacks the outright power to be a totally convincing lock. Think it's only a matter of time before we see Itoje and Martin in the row with Chessum at 6. CCS on the other hand is a naturally powerful unit - lot to learn but one decent carry and put himself about a bit in the tackle……powerful, aggressive, according to Launch is coming on well in the line out and should definitely be invested in.

I think you've summed it up very well.

CCS in a very brief cameo was an eye raiser.

Agree with you about Chessum. I also wonder what happens when his little big brother starts to really come through at the Tigers.

Dingwall was anonymous...Daly needs dropped. Waboso showed more power and aggression in however long he was on. Plus Roebuck is there.

Still concerned about the props. Stuart carried more in this game than I think he has in his entire England career but I'm still just not remotely convinced. Cole in for his scrummaging got battered as did Obano who everyone was screaming for....

Lots to work on...but I'm in the glass half full camp...as you probably expected.

 

[Wendigo7]

Daly was shocking. I really hope we have the chance to move on from him, at least the one that's playing for England.

CCS with a nice cameo. Mitchell was good! The drop off when Care came on was huge.

Cole and Marler. Thanks but time to move onto new options.

Did I mention Care was awful.

Good performances came from Freeman, Itoje, Mitchell, Roots (pretty darn good).

 

[duncanb]

For me.
Roots deserved MOM.
Freeman one wing solved.
JG isn't a captain.
Underhill so lacks match practice.
Ford can't tackle.
We still can't find a centre pairing.
JM great in tight but offers less than nowt in loose.
Cole is and should be gone .
Game bits good at times poor at others.
Day 1 of next 4 year cycle please SB use next 4 games + 2 in summer to look across board.
6 nations is Irelands with a slam let's look to catch up and spread the net to find a youngish 30 odd to move on with we can beat all bar Ireland and can lose to all but let's have a good look moving on.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

CCS injected a lot of energy off the bench but he really needs to work on his ball security - was the same for England u20, carries so loosely into contact he knocks on a lot of good ball
Would like to see him get a start at 6 this tournament but imagine Roots has that shirt nailed down now - hope CCS isn't viewed as a genuine option at 7, I was hoping he'd go to 8 when he came on but Earl stayed there

We didn't really threaten the breakdown much - Itoje had a great turnover in the first half and Roots had that one in the 2nd but that was more of a "Really? You're really not gonna put anyone in to secure the ball? Ok I guess I'll just have it then?", it was his first turnover since joining Exeter apparently

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ford can't tackle

I think that's harsh, he missed one tackle, same amount as Cunningham-South, Dingwall missed 5, and made the same amount as Slade and Underhill

It was just the old physics issue that it's always been: big runners go down his channel and it takes a few metres for him to bring him down.
Agree that that's not ideal at 10, and maybe he could/should go lower, but it is what it is

Did nothing today to change my mind that he shouldn't be starting, don't get me wrong, but defence wasn't an issue

 

[TommiG88]

I think that's harsh, he missed one tackle, same amount as Cunningham-South, Dingwall missed 5, and made the same amount as Slade and Underhill

It was just the old physics issue that it's always been: big runners go down his channel and it takes a few metres for him to bring him down.
Agree that that's not ideal at 10, and maybe he could/should go lower, but it is what it is

Did nothing today to change my mind that he shouldn't be starting, don't get me wrong, but defence wasn't an issue

I agree with this.

I feel Ford doesn't take it to the line and a lot of his attack is quite lateral or a late pass, but it seems quite predictable. Garbisi showed a lot more unpredictability in my opinion

 

[duncanb]

I think that's harsh, he missed one tackle, same amount as Cunningham-South, Dingwall missed 5, and made the same amount as Slade and Underhill

It was just the old physics issue that it's always been: big runners go down his channel and it takes a few metres for him to bring him down.
Agree that that's not ideal at 10, and maybe he could/should go lower, but it is what it is

Did nothing today to change my mind that he shouldn't be starting, don't get me wrong, but defence wasn't an issue

Stats show that but lost a shed load of yards as well when making them.
Personally in defence set he needs to be a tad hidden.
His game management bar defence is good don't know if Smith or Smith would be better.
As posted I personally want to see different players play to see what is best way forward.
As this 6 nations is irelands.So see what's best in 4 Yr cycle for us.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

As I've said I didn't watch the game but you shouldn't really be picking a 10 on their tackling ability anyway.

 

[TommiG88]

As I've said I didn't watch the game but you shouldn't really be picking a 10 on their tackling ability anyway.

Defensively he lost a lot of yardage, but I wasn't sold on his inventiveness with ball in hand.

He managed a conservative game well in a second half

 

[AlRums]

As I've said I didn't watch the game but you shouldn't really be picking a 10 on their tackling ability anyway.

Farrell?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Farrell?

Sorry to disappoint but I haven't actually been in charge of England selection

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Sorry to disappoint but I haven't actually been in charge of England selection

That's exactly what Borthwick would say if he was on the forum though...

 

[BPM]

I can see that. On the other hand I would like England to give me something to be a bit more positive about. A 3pt win over Italy isn't that.

I feel like almost every single one of your posts for the last year is a cut and paste.

 

[Grizwald]

Generally I thought the form prem players played well inc the debutants.

Slade has some classy moments and kicked better from hand than Ford. I've not seen much from Roots in the PL. With a smaller 8 and Underhill you need a 6 in that mould. I could never understand why Dave Ewers never got a look at International level as Roots seems a solid if not remarkable player.

We're miles off France and Ireland bit enough there to optimistic about. I'll be at the Scotland game at Murrayfield.

 

[Wasps92]

Would like to see Furbank at FB next week, with Freeman and Steward on wings, gradually building to a Freeman, F-W, Furbank back 3.

No. He's not a winger. Let's stop this playing players out of position crap.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No. He's not a winger. Let's stop this playing players out of position crap.

Yeah, if you want someone like Steward on the wing then you play Roebuck

For me I'd go
11. IFW, 14. Freeman, 15. Steward
23. Furbank

Thought Steward looked decent today