[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 3: Ireland vs. Argentina (18/10/2015)

[munstermuffin]

Not surprised by result. I knew Pumas would be good. Congratulations lads ye deserved it and a superb performance.

For Irish team. Thanks lads. It didn't go right today but none of ye were lacking in effort. Be proud of how ye went and unfortunately injuries just got us at wrong time. Keep heads up and see ye back in provincial colours in next few weeks.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

After the Tonga match, Maradona joined the team at the dressing room and promised them he'd be there if they made it to the semis.

I heard he wouldn't be there until the Semis too, but social media reckons he was at the Namibia match too - he can't bloody help himself :lol:

Thank you, much appreciated.

To be fair I think Argentina have gained a HUGE amount of support this week.
I know guys I work with who are very anti-Argentina (due to the Falklands etc.) but they're now cheering on Los Pumas.
Everyone loves an under-dog, and Argentina play attractive rugby - big nasty forwards, very skilled backs. It's different to cheering on Namibia vs New Zealand, for examples.

 

[nzlizard]

Tbh I am so glad that Argentina won, the Irish brigade on the forums has been blowing themselves up for a few weeks now and this has brought them crashing back to earth.

Who was the Irish supporter that said the AB's won't make the semis and the Ireland will?

Although before the tourny started I picked Ireland as a dark horse and thought they may have got to the final, they certainly did not play up to there potential I feel, maybe a case of underestimating there opponents?

Anyways, play time is over and now its the big boys turn to do there thing.

 

[shtove]

Ugh... This is going to be tough to write, that was worse than losing to NZ two years ago... Mainly because I was a fool who completely overestimated Ireland and underestimated Argentina. -

I did exactly the same thing in 2007 on this forum and got my arse kicked. Not this time.

That's a good analysis of Ireland's weakness, but I think the Pumas play a better game anyway - some deeper flaw in the Irish way.

 

[Horacito]

Come on guys, we could be a little more gracious in victory; I know that if the irish had won this one, the forum would be insufferable and we would have to see all europeans except for the french embracing their recently discovered love for Ireland. The irish we complained about in this same thread early on already suffered enough, let's leave them alone. This match has some pretty awesome consequences by itself:

-we are now one of the best five teams in the world by our own right independent on what the ranking says: even if someone surpasses us, it's only because defeating SA AUS NZ consistently is currently impossible for anyone outside the top 3 (between themselves). In fact, we have a greater chance than anyone else.

-In four years, the irish will probably forget about this game just like this time they forgot about 2007 and it will be even better, just as I said previously in the forum.

-We have completely justified our inclussion in RC foreva: being able to defeat the best team in Europe by 23 poins mean we are one of them: SA and AUS had a much rougher game than us.

-We demonstrated that ARG is not only about scrum, we have talented backs too.

With that being said, some points against us:

I cant see us getting further than OZ. I mean, they have Cheiks. CHEIKS. He is probably the best coach in the universe by now.

Line outs were better from IRE this time, that's a huge problem.

We have a psycological barrier that lasts like 20 min and then it seems we can't get over it.

Only against the AB's it seemed we didn't have this issue.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Tbh I am so glad that Argentina won, the Irish brigade on the forums has been blowing themselves up for a few weeks now and this has brought them crashing back to earth.

Why do you find that satisfactory? Genuine question because I see it a lot among NZ posters. Some of us were confident, none more so than me, but I don't think we were arrogant and always respectful of Argentina. Is it that NZ are so dominant that you need the disappoint and pain of others to be satisfied with the sport? Is it a cultural thing of anyone being confident? An "old money" sort of thing that we're not proven and shouldn't believe in our team? Sorry if this sounds condescending but anyone on here who has a significant number of posts and thinks like this seems to be a kiwi to me.

I did exactly the same thing in 2007 on this forum and got my arse kicked. Not this time.

That's a good analysis of Ireland's weakness, but I think the Pumas play a better game anyway - some deeper flaw in the Irish way.

Well there was definitely a greater flaw in that 23, I think it could be the loss of aggression you get with the four players we lost who seem to be the most vocal on the pitch. We'll never really know either. We're going to have a new look Irish team come the 6 nations, PO'C, Ross and Bowe will be gone from the starting 15, CJ will be after Heaslip's spot and there's an orgy of young centres crying out to join Henshaw. It's a topic for another thread which will be made once we recover from this but the point is with a full team we'd have had the personalities to stop us looking rudderless like we did quite often today and not having them may have been the biggest flaw but if it wasn't it doesn't matter now anyway.

2015 will very much be the one that could have been, I have a feeling that by the time Japan comes around we'll have less of a chance of reaching the semis than any of the RWC's since and including '07... Lord save us!

 

[munstermuffin]

it is priceless to see the back of the hubris filled irish, another failure at a world cup. lol

Can I ask how it was a failure? They let no one down and gave their all.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can I ask how it was a failure? They let no one down and gave their all.

Whilst I don't think that Ireland were failures at all, I can see why some people might think it: Best side in the NH, bigged up the make the semi's/finals (I'm sure, for a long time, the bookies had them as 3rd favourites behind NZ and ENG, which means they were 2nd favourites because England were only there because we were hosts).



I've got to admit I thought Argentina would win, but I was surprised at the extend.
However it's always going to be a struggle when you lose your captain/forwards leader and backs leader, along with two other of your best forwards - especially against that Argentinian pack.


I did see, online, that it was the only Irish pack to not contain a Munster player for 40 years, so at least the turnip munchers have something to be smug about

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can I ask how it was a failure? They let no one down and gave their all.

That dude's a worthless troll but you've really struck a chord with me here Muff. You can be damn sure the players and management will have this down as a failure.

I just put this into a group chat of mine in response to a FB post with a picture of the team captioned "Proud to be Irish":
"Rant time: Posts like these can go **** themselves. Of course I ****ing proud of my nationality but I was before we lost this ****ing game, reaching a semi final of a World Cup is something we haven't done before (and I'm pretty sure we never ****ing will) so had we done it it would be something about our country to be more proud of. "Proud to be Irish" after a match like this or when Bosnia beat us next month should be translated as "I'm a ****ing bandwagoner anyway so mediocrity is fine, I had fun while it lasted". It's a ****ing bull**** attitude and something that really embarrasses me about this circle jerk of a nation, Argentina wouldn't be at that **** had they lost and neither would Australia, NZ or SA. it's one of the reasons why this country will never be winners on the world stage in any team sport. ****..."

I think it's how we should be feeling right now. Successful teams have harsh fans, it may be because they're used to success but knowing they'll be called out on their failures drives them on. In Ireland we lose and we think it's fine if "they tried their best" in this case trying their best wasn't good enough and that really has to be questioned. "You did well boys, hard luck" isn't good enough for a team who was ranked 3rd in the world from the competetive matches they played before this tournament.

 

[nickdnz]

Firstly, congratulations to Argentina. Played some beautiful rugby - definitely a credit to themselves. We talk of 2007 as a 'prime' time for Argentina, has to be said that this team seems just as capable.

For Ireland - I feel sorry for you guys. Very strange seeing posters taking particular delight in seeing the Irish 'knocked down a peg' - especially coming from a few New Zealanders (who perhaps don't have the foresight to see what may happen if we lose to South Africa next week...). The reality is Ireland were missing some very important players, and it's unlucky they had to try and advance on those conditions.

It also emphasizes some of the problems with everyone putting the RWC as the ultimate goal of international rugby. It relies on your best players being fit over a few knock-out matches, rather than continually delivering over a series (which is where Ireland has excelled in recent years, and is probably a better barometer of talent).

 

[munstermuffin]

Olyy its first in 20 years

Regards game you and Cmac point out that yes we were the best European team but that's on paper. My point is I'm not down and I'm proud because we did our best. Out of team we consider the best we were down
Payne
Sexton
O'Brien
O'Mahony
O'Connell
And Bowe for large chunk today.
Throw in Healy wasn't in great form this tournament.

That's a lot to be down. Our back row was poor as a unit today. All lads did OK individually but as a unit the roles weren't as cohesive. Madigan is a poor tactical kicker. This pushed more pressure kicking on to Murray and we lost both these guys form. And similar stories all over. We tried to fit in a plan that had too many wrong pieces. Not Schmidts fault as you couldn't plan for the scenario that unfolded. And just on top of it all a very good Pumas team turned up. Rested and ready. If our full team or even near enough were to play then yes it's a failure but after last week and all the issues its hard to slam them. Cmac you can't call people bandwagoners today for saying we are proud despite loosing. We simply had to many that aren't leaders and had no leader on field except Best who'd a fine game. Through no fault of anyone it happens.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I think it's how we should be feeling right now. Successful teams have harsh fans, it may be because they're used to success but knowing they'll be called out on their failures drives them on. In Ireland we lose and we think it's fine if "they tried their best" in this case trying their best wasn't good enough and that really has to be questioned. "You did well boys, hard luck" isn't good enough for a team who was ranked 3rd in the world from the competetive matches they played before this tournament.

I agree with this part. Since we joined the RC Argentine fans have changed quite a bit. The phrase "derrota digna" (literally dignified defeat) was use commonly and was something we were getting used to and it played against us for a while.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Olyy its first in 20 years

Tell that to Dove on the ultimate rugby app! (I was at work for the first half-and-a-bit )

 

[Manti]

it is priceless to see the back of the hubris filled irish, another failure at a world cup. lol

Yeah it's even more priceless to know you're not even American, nice try Welch dude, come back as a Welch supporter and we will properly understand your bitter envy.

 

[lentenbok]

it is priceless to see the back of the hubris filled irish, another failure at a world cup. lol

England was a failure.
Ireland losing to a team who was, overall, better on the day and thoroughly deserved it after winning all their own pool matches? Not a failure.

---

Regarding the comments on the squad in general, I worked it out that there was an unbalance of Leinster players within the squad. It breaks down roughly (and I say roughly as the replacements may have muddled me) to the squad being made up of -

Connacht - 2
Munster - 5
Ulster - 7
Leinster - 16
Toulon - 1 (counting O'Connell as Toulon)

the 3 replacements called up, (Boss, McCarthy and Ruddock) are also Leinster players.

Also worth a mention there were some players who got very little game time at all. I can understand Furlong, as he's only 22 and relatively inexperienced only getting off the bench during one match given how strong the front row was, but Ryan, Zebo, Murphy, Strauss, Cave and Jackson all played at most 3 matches, often coming off the bench. One would even question why Furlong, Cave and Jackson were selected for the squad, as Cave only started against Romania, and Jackson's only match time was when he came on as a sub for Payne against Romania. Similarly, Furlong's only match time was after a substitution with 17 minutes left. I'm not a Jackson fan, but I do question the selection if we had players that coaches didn't even seem to think would add value on the bench across all of Ireland's matches. Definitely something for Ireland to look at when it comes to developing the depth of their squad - whilst they have definitely improved, it's not by enough. I do question why some players were there if the plan was to give them as little match time as possible, and why there seems to be more Leinster players than from other provinces - is Leinster higher quality? Do the other provinces need to work more on their development sides? Or is it just a possible bias? (but I shouldn't complain, I'm an Ulster supporter)

Anyway, this is veering slightly off topic.

Nothing is a failure about losing to a better team who played a better game, and weren't afraid to exploit the weaknesses.
Ireland lacked strong leadership on the field, due to losing POC, Sexton etc. I'm not sure some of the choices were right, I would have definitely tried Henderson at no. 6, but we didn't play well and the game was disappointing to those who really did have hopes for this team. But in losing, we have also been shown exactly what we need to work on which is as much the depth of the squad and having players of equal quality as it is our failings to really attack and adapt our game.

I was one of the ones who was hoping for an Ireland victory, and a tight game, but in the end my team did not play well when it counted. And the other team ran circles around them. Now it's all calmed down post match, I think it became clear 20 minutes in we had too many gaps we couldn't fill and Argentina ran straight through them.

 

[Superalexmarket]

What about the fact that the Pumas are the only team in this RWC with NO foreign players in their squad. 100% Argies. And the only one with some amateurs players in semifinal. PUMA PRIDE!!

 

[Manti]

What about the fact that the Pumas are the only team in this RWC with NO foreign players in their squad. 100% Argies. And the only one with some amateurs players in semifinal. PUMA PRIDE!!

Go Pumas. Fully deserved win today and I hope you go on to win the lot, and by the looks of things you just might do that Oz were muck (and shouldn't have won), NZ beat a French side my granny could have beat, Oh please God let the Puma's hammer the ego's out of the lot of em, and my God they need their ego's taken down a peg or two.

 

[Shaggy]

Congrats Argentina, hard luck Ireland ... I agree Cmac, I think supporters do need to expect their players to perform and win, but also to learn from their losses for next time ... and yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being confident and talking up your teams chances, while respecting your opposition (that's not arrogance) ... Prior to the kick off, I didn't think that it was unreasonable to expect either of these teams to win this match, from a fans perspective TBH, so why not be confident and expect the win.

I agree with Nick that there's no need to seek enjoyment out of Ireland (or any nations) loss; celebrate/congratulate the winner, ad get the enjoyment out of what was a great game, and Nick, your point is well made about NZ's potential to be facing the same prospect next week ... I hope not, but if it occurs, I hope we deal with it with some class and dignity

To the Pumas fans, while a semifinal loss is a good building block for future success, you absolutely should not except that a semifinal exit is acceptable ... your team is hitting form at the right time, and any team is beatable on the day.

 

[Manti]

Tbh I am so glad that Argentina won, the Irish brigade on the forums has been blowing themselves up for a few weeks now and this has brought them crashing back to earth.

Who was the Irish supporter that said the AB's won't make the semis and the Ireland will?

Although before the tourny started I picked Ireland as a dark horse and thought they may have got to the final, they certainly did not play up to there potential I feel, maybe a case of underestimating there opponents?

Anyways, play time is over and now its the big boys turn to do there thing.

That was me, who said you wouldn't win the WC, now it's time for you big boys to step up to the plate and win, guess you will be back if you do, but if you don't you're gonna look like a right ass, not that you don't already.

Moreover I don't hate NZ just some of the clowns who come on here, and you're not even the worst of them.

On another note I am annoyed at the French for targeting our top players leaving us in a horrible position to continue in the tournament, and then coming out against NZ and submitting so badly,n how would you feel in that situation, you'd be crying like babies, no Irish have done that we congragulate the Puma's on their wonderful performance.

- - - Updated - - -

Congrats Argentina, hard luck Ireland ... I agree Cmac, I think supporters do need to expect their players to perform and win, but also to learn from their losses for next time ... and yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being confident and talking up your teams chances, while respecting your opposition (that's not arrogance) ... Prior to the kick off, I didn't think that it was unreasonable to expect either of these teams to win this match, from a fans perspective TBH, so why not be confident and expect the win.

I agree with Nick that there's no need to seek enjoyment out of Ireland (or any nations) loss; celebrate/congratulate the winner, ad get the enjoyment out of what was a great game, and Nick, your point is well made about NZ's potential to be facing the same prospect next week ... I hope not, but if it occurs, I hope we deal with it with some class and dignity

To the Pumas fans, while a semifinal loss is a good building block for future success, you absolutely should not except that a semifinal exit is acceptable ... your team is hitting form at the right time, and any team is beatable on the day.

agreed completely

 

[ianw16]

Oh dear. The inabilty to see that the ABs are massively superior to Ireland. Do you think they'd have lost like that today? Seriously? Ireland are a bog standard NH team. Tricky on an EOYT, but otherwise not to be bothered about. Just like the rest, they flatter to deceive. Not a problem. When was the last time they beat the ABs? Ditto the rest. Get used to losing to Argentina. Playing in the RC will sharpen them up, but once they have a Super XV team, they will be something else. Unless the NH can sort its competitions out, then they will need to get used to being second best. For a long time.