[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 3: Ireland vs. Argentina (18/10/2015)

[Superalexmarket]

No, much like Scotland and Wales we'd avoid singing England's anthem.

So, what song is North Ireland anthem?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So, what song is North Ireland anthem?

They haven't taken an anthem other than God Save the Queen, Wales and Scotland choose Bread of Heaven and Flower of Scotland. You couldn't have Irish players standing under GSTQ

 

[Superalexmarket]

They haven't taken an anthem other than God Save the Queen, Wales and Scotland choose Bread of Heaven and Flower of Scotland. You couldn't have Irish players standing under GSTQ

O'Driscoll face... priceless!!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

O'Driscoll face... priceless!!

ROG says in his book he had a sweaty hand and was trying to wipe it! Believe that if you will!!!

 

[lentenbok]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but why some irish players didn't sang the "Ireland's call". (The Ulster issue maybe?)

I think some of them don't know the words, or some of them don't sing as they've got their 'match focus' on (same way some players of other teams don't sing their anthem) and some only join in for the 'Ireland, Ireland' bit.

I did think it was mostly the Ulster players who don't sing it, until I saw Paddy Jackson belting it out and Tommy Bowe always sings it - despite being from the province of Ulster, he's actually Irish and not British/from the U.K as he's from Monaghan. I think there's more than just the Ulstermen who don't sing it, Cronin, Heaslip, Murray Stringer, O'Gara (to name a few non-Ulstermen) all have been seen to not sing it.

As the Irish rugby team is made up of all 4 provinces, they can't sing 2 anthems and both the Irish National Anthem and 'British' National Anthem could cause offence. They sing the Irish National Anthem when Ireland play in Ireland, but tbf, there isn't really a stadium big enough in Northern Ireland for the Irish team to play in.

On top of that, God Save The Queen is the English National Anthem, could you imagine a match where England v Ireland and they sing the same Anthem? The same way Scotland and Wales use different anthems too.

Ireland's Call is meant to bring a neutrality in that it's neither the anthem of North or South, and 'unites' the two teams (part of the '4 proud provinces of Ireland' lyrics).
The quality of the song is debatable, but the 'Ireland, Ireland' bit is easy to remember and sing at least!
It's definitely much better than Ulster's unofficial anthem of 'Stand up for the Ulster men' (x12)

Northern Ireland has a rough deal in sports in general. You either chose Ireland or United Kingdom and British Isles (and imo, there's a better chance of being selected to play for Ireland than the UK) or if there's a Northern Irish team, it's generally pretty bad as there's such a limited amount of people. If there was a Northern Irish rugby team, it would end up the Ulster squad minus those born in Ireland and with some of the internationals. So basically a provincial level team.

I also wonder if someone living in Northern Ireland would be automatically qualified to play for England if their parents/grandparents held a British passport, or if they would have to play for Ireland unless they could qualify for England through residency.

To put it one way, the whole Ireland/Northern Ireland thing has a lot of issues/questions in general, but Irish Rugby has found a pretty solid way to combat it. The Irish Rugby flag also isn't actually the tricolour but is made up of the 4 province flags.
(I'm also not sure the Ireland/Northern Ireland thing is as big an issue in GAA, but then I'm not into GAA so may be wrong)

 

[LukeFitzgerald]

Seriously, we should get a new anthem. Ireland's Call and Amhrann na bhFiann are both awful, I particularly despise Ireland's Call. We should try to replicate the Welsh and choose a song that most people know ie Fields of Athenry (not fully srs) so at least there's a bit of passion in it. All Welsh supporters and most of the Welsh players belt out the anthem at every game. It's unbelievable to hear. Basically, I'm jealous of the Welsh national anthem.

 

[munstermuffin]

Seriously, we should get a new anthem. Ireland's Call and Amhrann na bhFiann are both awful, I particularly despise Ireland's Call. We should try to replicate the Welsh and choose a song that most people know ie Fields of Athenry (not fully srs) so at least there's a bit of passion in it. All Welsh supporters and most of the Welsh players belt out the anthem at every game. It's unbelievable to hear. Basically, I'm jealous of the Welsh national anthem.

Maybe you should realise Amhrann na bhFiann is part of our country and the meaning of it is the important bit. The Welsh anthem is their official anthem by everything but law. Has nothing to do with popularity or anything. Ireland's Call isn't everyones cup of tea but well it is part of a great effort by the IRFU and rugby in both the North and South of Ireland to say they are better role model and lead the goodwill stance long before politics ever did.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just on the rugby. The lads returned yesterday.
Keith Earls and Rob Kearney were joint top scorers with 3 Each. Bowe 2nd with 2 and loads with 1.
Cian Healy was worst for handling errors with Earls, Dave Kearney. Sean O'Brien, Henderson, Sexton and Henshaw joint 2nd.
For Knockons. Healy was worst with 5, Sean O'Brien, Henshaw, Kearney and Henderson 2nd with 3. Murray, POC, Bowe, Earls, Zebo 3rd with 2.
For assists - Zebo and Reddan were best with 3 each. Luke and Henshaw 2 each, Madigan, Earls, Murray and Sean O'Brien 1 each.
For Clean breaks - Earls (5), Luke (4) and Payne and Kearney (3) were top.
Offloads - Henshaw, Jordi and Heaslip (3) were top with Payne, Henderson and Earls (2)
Carries - Sean O'B (49), Heaslip (48), Earls (46), Henderson and Kearney (41)
Pens Conceded - Healy (6), Murray and Henry (5), SOB, Toner, POM, Heaslip all 4.
Missed Tackles - Dave K (9) Earls (8), Best SOB and Kearney R all 5 - Interestingly 4 from Rob and 5 from Dave and 3 from Earls came vs Arg.
Turnovers won- SOB + Henry + Henderson (5) POM, Best, Murphy (3)
Metres Made -Rob K (285m) Earls (263m) Zebo(152m)
Tackles Made - Heaslip (48) Henderson (42) Earls (34) Henshaw (33) Best (29) SOB (25)

All from IRFU official computers.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just on the rugby. The lads returned yesterday.
Keith Earls and Rob Kearney were joint top scorers with 3 Each. Bowe 2nd with 2 and loads with 1.
Cian Healy was worst for handling errors with Earls, Dave Kearney. Sean O'Brien, Henderson, Sexton and Henshaw joint 2nd.
For Knockons. Healy was worst with 5, Sean O'Brien, Henshaw, Kearney and Henderson 2nd with 3. Murray, POC, Bowe, Earls, Zebo 3rd with 2.
For assists - Zebo and Reddan were best with 3 each. Luke and Henshaw 2 each, Madigan, Earls, Murray and Sean O'Brien 1 each.
For Clean breaks - Earls (5), Luke (4) and Payne and Kearney (3) were top.
Offloads - Henshaw, Jordi and Heaslip (3) were top with Payne, Henderson and Earls (2)
Carries - Sean O'B (49), Heaslip (48), Earls (46), Henderson and Kearney (41)
Pens Conceded - Healy (6), Murray and Henry (5), SOB, Toner, POM, Heaslip all 4.
Missed Tackles - Dave K (9) Earls (8), Best SOB and Kearney R all 5 - Interestingly 4 from Rob and 5 from Dave and 3 from Earls came vs Arg.
Turnovers won- SOB + Henry + Henderson (5) POM, Best, Murphy (3)
Metres Made -Rob K (285m) Earls (263m) Zebo(152m)
Tackles Made - Heaslip (48) Henderson (42) Earls (34) Henshaw (33) Best (29) SOB (25)

All from IRFU official computers.

Can't see Healy being a starter with Leinster or Ireland again, McGarth really has overtaken him in almost all facets of their games. Big mistake from Schmidt starting Healy on Sunday. I also think more players than O'Connell have played their last for Ireland, Bowe, Reddan and Ross have no place in the set up any longer as much as it pains me to say.

 

[Rukhage]

I think some of them don't know the words, or some of them don't sing as they've got their 'match focus' on (same way some players of other teams don't sing their anthem) and some only join in for the 'Ireland, Ireland' bit.

I did think it was mostly the Ulster players who don't sing it, until I saw Paddy Jackson belting it out and Tommy Bowe always sings it - despite being from the province of Ulster, he's actually Irish and not British/from the U.K as he's from Monaghan. I think there's more than just the Ulstermen who don't sing it, Cronin, Heaslip, Murray Stringer, O'Gara (to name a few non-Ulstermen) all have been seen to not sing it.

As the Irish rugby team is made up of all 4 provinces, they can't sing 2 anthems and both the Irish National Anthem and 'British' National Anthem could cause offence. They sing the Irish National Anthem when Ireland play in Ireland, but tbf, there isn't really a stadium big enough in Northern Ireland for the Irish team to play in.

On top of that, God Save The Queen is the English National Anthem, could you imagine a match where England v Ireland and they sing the same Anthem? The same way Scotland and Wales use different anthems too.

Ireland's Call is meant to bring a neutrality in that it's neither the anthem of North or South, and 'unites' the two teams (part of the '4 proud provinces of Ireland' lyrics).
The quality of the song is debatable, but the 'Ireland, Ireland' bit is easy to remember and sing at least!
It's definitely much better than Ulster's unofficial anthem of 'Stand up for the Ulster men' (x12)

Northern Ireland has a rough deal in sports in general. You either chose Ireland or United Kingdom and British Isles (and imo, there's a better chance of being selected to play for Ireland than the UK) or if there's a Northern Irish team, it's generally pretty bad as there's such a limited amount of people. If there was a Northern Irish rugby team, it would end up the Ulster squad minus those born in Ireland and with some of the internationals. So basically a provincial level team.

I also wonder if someone living in Northern Ireland would be automatically qualified to play for England if their parents/grandparents held a British passport, or if they would have to play for Ireland unless they could qualify for England through residency.

To put it one way, the whole Ireland/Northern Ireland thing has a lot of issues/questions in general, but Irish Rugby has found a pretty solid way to combat it. The Irish Rugby flag also isn't actually the tricolour but is made up of the 4 province flags.
(I'm also not sure the Ireland/Northern Ireland thing is as big an issue in GAA, but then I'm not into GAA so may be wrong)

Thanks for the explanation! I always wondered about this. Nevertheless I must say, though I don't speak Gaellic, I do like the cadence of Amhrann na bhFiann. The Argentine Anthem, the version you hear, is the shortened version, given that it's an anthem composed in the early 19th Century, it's way more long and bombastic (not exactly appropriate for a sporting event).

That's why I've always liked the Marseillaise: short, enthralling and to the point. Something you can belt out easily (if you speak French of course).

 

[munstermuffin]

Can't see Healy being a starter with Leinster or Ireland again, McGarth really has overtaken him in almost all facets of their games. Big mistake from Schmidt starting Healy on Sunday. I also think more players than O'Connell have played their last for Ireland, Bowe, Reddan and Ross have no place in the set up any longer as much as it pains me to say.

Yes and no. McGrath certainly was in great form and Healy was off form. But its a question of is that neck ever going to be in top shape. Healy is still only 28 so like he's young enough but there'll be great competition.
Bowe will be under huge pressure, I think Luke Fitz and Zebo really raised their value and Earls is a winger. Dave Kearney will be there too but he lacks that bit of gas the others have and at Bowes age he will really struggle to keep up but don't rule him out.
Ross I would say is done and he's been a great player doing the job. Now it's will White fill gap of a year while Furlong gets up to it and Moore keeps fit. Archer has a serious neck problem so his slim chances of making it are gone.
Reddan is probably going to still be around as options are poor.
Leinster - Unless McGrath gets starts he won't be in.
Munster - Williams (I'll let ye comment), O'Leary (not up to it) and Sheridan won't either.
Ulster - Marshall isn't good enough.
Connacht - Cooney is a good player and a dark horse, Marmion is obvious candidate BUT Schmidt doesn't seem to fancy him.

 

[nickdnz]

Can't see Healy being a starter with Leinster or Ireland again, McGarth really has overtaken him in almost all facets of their games. Big mistake from Schmidt starting Healy on Sunday. I also think more players than O'Connell have played their last for Ireland, Bowe, Reddan and Ross have no place in the set up any longer as much as it pains me to say.

I doubt Healy is at risk to go tbh. He's still only 28 - and if I'm honest I still rate him (even if I really dont like him).

 

[munstermuffin]

I think some of them don't know the words, or some of them don't sing as they've got their 'match focus' on (same way some players of other teams don't sing their anthem) and some only join in for the 'Ireland, Ireland' bit.

I did think it was mostly the Ulster players who don't sing it, until I saw Paddy Jackson belting it out and Tommy Bowe always sings it - despite being from the province of Ulster, he's actually Irish and not British/from the U.K as he's from Monaghan. I think there's more than just the Ulstermen who don't sing it, Cronin, Heaslip, Murray Stringer, O'Gara (to name a few non-Ulstermen) all have been seen to not sing it.

As the Irish rugby team is made up of all 4 provinces, they can't sing 2 anthems and both the Irish National Anthem and 'British' National Anthem could cause offence. They sing the Irish National Anthem when Ireland play in Ireland, but tbf, there isn't really a stadium big enough in Northern Ireland for the Irish team to play in.

On top of that, God Save The Queen is the English National Anthem, could you imagine a match where England v Ireland and they sing the same Anthem? The same way Scotland and Wales use different anthems too.

Ireland's Call is meant to bring a neutrality in that it's neither the anthem of North or South, and 'unites' the two teams (part of the '4 proud provinces of Ireland' lyrics).
The quality of the song is debatable, but the 'Ireland, Ireland' bit is easy to remember and sing at least!
It's definitely much better than Ulster's unofficial anthem of 'Stand up for the Ulster men' (x12)

Northern Ireland has a rough deal in sports in general. You either chose Ireland or United Kingdom and British Isles (and imo, there's a better chance of being selected to play for Ireland than the UK) or if there's a Northern Irish team, it's generally pretty bad as there's such a limited amount of people. If there was a Northern Irish rugby team, it would end up the Ulster squad minus those born in Ireland and with some of the internationals. So basically a provincial level team.

I also wonder if someone living in Northern Ireland would be automatically qualified to play for England if their parents/grandparents held a British passport, or if they would have to play for Ireland unless they could qualify for England through residency.

To put it one way, the whole Ireland/Northern Ireland thing has a lot of issues/questions in general, but Irish Rugby has found a pretty solid way to combat it. The Irish Rugby flag also isn't actually the tricolour but is made up of the 4 province flags.
(I'm also not sure the Ireland/Northern Ireland thing is as big an issue in GAA, but then I'm not into GAA so may be wrong)

Just on this. I'm not sure of all details but it is something to do with where your born. Eg Rory Best could never have player for England unless he was there on residency rules. So if your place of birth was Belfast then your Irish in rugby eyes.

 

[Cliffyboy]

Interesting comments on the anthems. It's a complete mystery to me, why we, i.e., England, do not have a separate anthem to play, instead of the National Anthem. Small wonder it gets booed by many of the Irish, Welsh and Scottish supporters, when being played, seeing as, strictly speaking, it's the anthem for the whole country, Great Britain. Like many other English people, I so didn't want Scotland to break away from the U.K., but heavens above, there's actually a written verse in the anthem, though it's never sung, that includes the lines: 'May he sedition hush,/and like a torrent rush,/Rebellious Scots to crush,/God save the King/Queen.' I mean, really, it's a boring anthem, in the first place, but if I was Scottish, I'd see red every time it was played, that's for sure.

 

[Wimero]

All the national anthems,bar ours,celebrate the country rather than a person.I reckon'God save the Queen' is by far the most dreary and boring anthem going.Much better to be belting out 'Jerusalem'.Now that would certainly get me fired up.
I love the Irish,French, and Welsh anthems.Find myself absent mindedly whistling them sometimes!

 

[Cliffyboy]

All the national anthems,bar ours,celebrate the country rather than a person.I reckon'God save the Queen' is by far the most dreary and boring anthem going.Much better to be belting out 'Jerusalem'.Now that would certainly get me fired up.
I love the Irish,French, and Welsh anthems.Find myself absent mindedly whistling them sometimes!

That's a beauty, sir.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

All the national anthems,bar ours,celebrate the country rather than a person.I reckon'God save the Queen' is by far the most dreary and boring anthem going.Much better to be belting out 'Jerusalem'.Now that would certainly get me fired up.
I love the Irish,French, and Welsh anthems.Find myself absent mindedly whistling them sometimes!

Agreed.

 

[Rukhage]

All the national anthems,bar ours,celebrate the country rather than a person.I reckon'God save the Queen' is by far the most dreary and boring anthem going.Much better to be belting out 'Jerusalem'.Now that would certainly get me fired up.
I love the Irish,French, and Welsh anthems.Find myself absent mindedly whistling them sometimes!

You're not the only ones, apparentl the Dutch anthem is the only one sung in the first person, as it's William of Nassau singing.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The Argentine Anthem, the version you hear, is the shortened version, given that it's an anthem composed in the early 19th Century, it's way more long and bombastic (not exactly appropriate for a sporting event).

Actually, the version we hear now is a shortened version of the shortened version. We don't sing the "Oid mortales el grito sagrado" part anymore, at least not in several sporting events, the RWC being one of those. We go straight for "sean eternos los laureles".
The second cut was probably due to timing/broadcasting reasons.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

All the national anthems,bar ours,celebrate the country rather than a person.I reckon'God save the Queen' is by far the most dreary and boring anthem going.Much better to be belting out 'Jerusalem'.Now that would certainly get me fired up.
I love the Irish,French, and Welsh anthems.Find myself absent mindedly whistling them sometimes!

Jerusalem is our national anthem in the Commonwealth Games, and I 100% agree it should be our anthem for rugby.