[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Georgia (02/10/2015)

[shtove]

What the hell do you mean by "raped"? If you mean losing by a big margin, then, a) I personally dont believe that will happen at all*, check the scores on Ireland matches under Schmidts record (bar that first Oz game) and b) rape is a really horrible word to use so casually

That terrible loss of innocence when you think you're doing the right thing, and your opponent says, **** that! Happens to Ireland all the time - England, France, NZ - even against Wales. Not so much against SA and Aus.

Ireland play well within the law. But Mack the Knife don't give a **** about the law.

And I apologise for the rape reference. I know you're a girl, so it must have made you uncomfortable. Hugz.

 

[ABs2011]

Deleted post - re-read the post above and don't want to re-post it. The dude needs his head checked. Agree with below. The post needs to be removed!

 

[ZeroTwo]

That terrible loss of innocence when you think you're doing the right thing, and your opponent says, **** that! Happens to Ireland all the time - England, France, NZ - even against Wales. Not so much against SA and Aus.

Ireland play well within the law. But Mack the Knife don't give a **** about the law.

And I apologise for the rape reference. I know you're a girl, so it must have made you uncomfortable. Hugz.

Moron. Mods? Making light of rape is not cool.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Rubbish, Dan Carter didn't play good versus Australia, Nonu was absolutely world class and covered the fact that DC is in actual fact, probably past it. He's hardly played any rugby for the last couple years, his name props him up. Sopoaga has played better games than Carter has for the last 3 years, just this season.

 

[Kiwi_]

Sopoaga should be there. The fact we overlooked him and took, Barrett, Carter and Slade is complete stupidity.

Barrett has been injured and not in kicking form. Same goes for Dan and let's face it, Dan is too old and Slade is a good player, but not a World Cup winner.

Sopoaga the NZ form 1st 5 and has a great combination with Aaron Smith and Fekitoa, a lot of synergy and cohesion, understanding and form there. Absolutely stupid not to take him.




Barrett and Slade already have injury concerns - how predictable was that. Really *****ed off to be honest.

 

[nik]

It seems the All Blacks are more or less interested in running teams off the park rather than beating physically dominating/ getting parity upfront first. To some extent it is working but execution is letting them down. I guess from and ABs point of view they are just looking to get by in these remaining pool games rather than punching it up the middle and setting up a good platform for the backs. Possibly keeps the players injury free by not engaging too much physically.

We would have seen more pick and drive from the ABs if the Georgians knew how to use the possession effectively but knowing their attack is very blunt the ABs aren't afraid to lose the ball hence the willy nilly throwing around.

 

[nzlizard]

When you look at the performers from tonight's game there is only a couple: McCaw and Coles, for me they were pretty good all night.

Followed by Savea, Retallick, Read and SBW being a little above as well.

Crockett and Faumuina made their physical presence felt a bit more than Woody and Franks but the scrum was poor.

Kaino was missing hard, maybe tired and told to manage his workload?

Smith and Carter in the halves were pretty poor, Carters missing from the side lines happens to any kicker, so not too concerned there, but the lack of injecting himself into the backline is not helping, we miss Crudens running into the line.

C Smith and B Smith felt flat for me, either offered too much attacking wise.

Naholo I felt didn't have the best game, a couple of his kick chases were poor and he was caught out of position a few times, hasn't played a lot I know but in reality needed to show maybe more in his short appearance.

Good to see Savea showing more glimpses of that form we know he has, SBW's decision making was sublime tonight, offloaded at the right time, held it when he needed too, good work rate.

Read and Retallick felt like they tried to up the ante just needed more support.

McCaw and Coles seemed to really nail it tonight, great game by both.

When you look at the game there were a lot of poor things, but nothing that another game playing some of the combos again against Tonga won't fix, cause we certainly can't afford to play a knockout game like that. Lets wait until after the Tonga game before we really panic.

 

[Scrum Bum]

A few pointers to take out of this game...

First of all there are better metaphors for getting badly beaten than "raped". It smacks of a limited vocabulary and ignorance. I also want to say I don't like these British post-game interviewers. They are sensationalist at worst and they can at least get someone with a cockney accent or an irish accent or a Northern accent. I think the woman in particular uses Queens English which annoys people from other English speaking countries.

Anyway...

- It's evident that the AB's forward pack struggle against a physical forward pack. The emphasis on ball handling skills and speed is too one dimensional.
- They want to play quick but don't clean out effectively or quickly. A few years ago ABs packs dominated breakdowns.
- This may just be a ploy to trick the detractors.
- Our enforcers aren't physically imposing anymore. Kaino, Rettalick especially. I don't even think we have many 'enforcers'. It's either specialist "skill" players, quick players, 1-2 enforcers, and the rest are old pedestrians. Elliot Dixon would've been a great blockbustering number 8; Victor Vito hasn't shown much at 8, we need a "big" tournament from Messam.
- Dan Carter is past it for sure, Sopoaga is great but I think the ABs have missed the bus on that one as having him in camp would allow him to transition to the starting role straight away.
- I'll be a bit ballsy and say Colin Slade has never had a game that was Dan Carter-calibre in the 10 jersey. I can't remember a game where he was the star of the show. Even for the Crusaders. And Even for my Highlanders lol.
- The Highlanders players in the ABs are doing very good. If only they picked a few more........

 

[Kiwi_]

Who the bloody hell is our 6 cover? Kaino is ghosting like he has all season. Vito used on the wing? What a wasted opportunity to give him good game time in a physical game up front. Stupidity on the bench selection.. TJ as our kicking cover? Wtf. Please send Slade or Barrett home and call Sopoaga, I think send Slade home, he's not match fit and can offer stuff all from here on in.

 

[nickdnz]

Who the bloody hell is our 6 cover? Kaino is ghosting like he has all season. Vito used on the wing? What a wasted opportunity to give him good game time in a physical game up front. Stupidity on the bench selection.. TJ as our kicking cover? Wtf. Please send Slade or Barrett home and call Sopoaga, I think send Slade home, he's not match fit and can offer stuff all from here on in.

You can't swap players unless it is injury cover - so please give up on the Sopoaga moaning every chance..

 

[merlinux]

I felt asleep after the first half(6am here) so I still need to catch up on the rest of the game. But what I saw only confirmed what I thought, this cup is still wide open.
I still hope we wont have to face the blacks in the 1/4, I'd rather leave it for Ireland heh heh, but it is certainly feasible to beat them when you leave your fear in the dressing room(yes ireland you can do it too).

 

[austingtir]

Moron. Mods? Making light of rape is not cool.

Do you really have to prance about every thread making these comments? He appologised just leave it be.

 

[Scrum Bum]

Slade can be removed, pretty sure he went down with injury during the week but it was minor. If Australia can drop two guys who were questionably injured then I suppose the ABs can drop players, you'd just have to exaggerate a bit on the medical cert. It's not moaning, Because seriously, Slade doesn't offer anything over Sopoaga. He's an inferior-skilled player who got in by virtue of being the incumbent. That's all. We saw this in 07 too when DC was not 100% in a crucial game or two yet Nick Evans was in the form of his life and left benched. Slade goes from a crap team (Highlanders) to a better team (Crusaders) and did bugger all with BOTH. I bet if he was the next Blues flyhalf he'd achieve the same as the rest of their past flyhalves achieved! Sopoaga would carry the Blues and most likely be their second best after King Carlos.

Anyway, it would be crazy to expect Sops to deliver if called up for say a quarter final or semi final.

Our 6 cover is Liam Messam. ABs selectors have favoured mobile 6s over enforcer 6s since Jerry Collins left. Liam Messam is more physical than Vito imo, but yes. A few brain farts from Hansen here. I believe he just did this to relieve a bit of pressure/expectation on the team.

 

[ABs2011]

Who the bloody hell is our 6 cover? Kaino is ghosting like he has all season. Vito used on the wing? What a wasted opportunity to give him good game time in a physical game up front. Stupidity on the bench selection.. TJ as our kicking cover? Wtf. Please send Slade or Barrett home and call Sopoaga, I think send Slade home, he's not match fit and can offer stuff all from here on in.

Comon Kiwi, a few deep breaths maybe.

At the risk of stating the obvious with respect to your comments the 6 cover is Vito then Messam. Nothing has changed other than a swap in the pecking order of the later 2.

Vito on the wing was obviously not ideal, but it was the result of injuries, concussion checks, and the way the bench was made up. It was just the way things unfolded. Obviously its not going to be a preferred option so it's a non-issue really!

As for TJ as kicking cover what the heck did you expect them to do given the situation? and please don't bang on about Sopoaga again cause, as Nick has rightly pointed out, he is not here and its not relevant given the options currently available. If Slade and Barrett have minor injuries they sure as heck shouldn't be playing a pool game vs Georgia don't you think? Maybe you have a better idea, but I can't think of what else they could have/should have done. Also it's obvious it was a stop gap measure cause he didn't even come on did he? My point is here, even if you man Sopoaga was around , if he was injured as well as Slade/Barrett then kicking cover would still be TJ. With that in mind, I can now understand Nicks post, you are not complaining about TJ as kicking cover at all are you? You just want to complain about Sopaga not being there. If that's the case, we get it! You;ve said it about 100 times

- - - Updated - - -

Slade can be removed, pretty sure he went down with injury during the week but it was minor. If Australia can drop two guys who were questionably injured then I suppose the ABs can drop players, you'd just have to exaggerate a bit on the medical cert. It's not moaning, Because seriously, Slade doesn't offer anything over Sopoaga. He's an inferior-skilled player who got in by virtue of being the incumbent. That's all. We saw this in 07 too when DC was not 100% in a crucial game or two yet Nick Evans was in the form of his life and left benched. Slade goes from a crap team (Highlanders) to a better team (Crusaders) and did bugger all with BOTH. I bet if he was the next Blues flyhalf he'd achieve the same as the rest of their past flyhalves achieved! Sopoaga would carry the Blues and most likely be their second best after King Carlos.

Anyway, it would be crazy to expect Sops to deliver if called up for say a quarter final or semi final.

Sorry mate, but your post is a bit ridiculous IMO.

Anyone can and will be removed if they are injured, yes. But the point is, the ABs aren't going to do a back flip on their selections mid RWC. If Slade has a minor injury and will be back next week they aren't going to send him home.

 

[Kiwi_]

You can't swap players unless it is injury cover - so please give up on the Sopoaga moaning every chance..

Sorry if I keep repeating myself. It's just hard to keep cool about it, looking at how average Dan has been this year, how injury prone Slade and Barrett are and how good of form Sopoaga has been, it's really quite frustrating. I heard Dan got the starting spot on the back of the Aussie game as well.. I still think that game just masked our real issues.

 

[ABs2011]

Rubbish, Dan Carter didn't play good versus Australia, Nonu was absolutely world class and covered the fact that DC is in actual fact, probably past it. He's hardly played any rugby for the last couple years, his name props him up. Sopoaga has played better games than Carter has for the last 3 years, just this season.

I thought he played a really good game - so arm chair critics disagree I guess.

What I find funny is that none of us have our jobs on the line with these selections, none of us are with the team 24/7, none of us know these players inside and out nor have access to the detailed data the keep on each and every player, and none of us get paid boat loads of money cause we are brilliant minds of rugby and can coach a team to world domination, yet many of us are very quick to jump on some of these players and coaches like the are thick as pig **** and can't coach or play the game to save themselves.

Might be food for thought some times

 

[nickdnz]

Here is the thing: Sopoaga may or may not have set the world alight at 1st 5/8th. If you read my initial posts regarding Sopoaga - both before and after the squad was named - is that he was probably my slight preferance to be there considering we have Barrett in utility.

With that said: expecting Sopoaga to perform in a totally different environment after one game is also very optimistic. It was likely a choice between weighing up whether to take a player in good form, or a player who is used to opperating within the environment you have worked on developing over four years. While I may have taken a punt on Sopoaga - it was hardly a strange decision to go with Slade. While we have seen a similar campaign to see Naholo be rushed in as our starting winger - it doesn't mean they are certain to deliver based on SR form (that said I hope he has a crack against Tonga from the bench).

Finally, I don't think the All Blacks problems can really be isolated to one players performance. Carter probably could be taking the ball to the line more, and all goal kickers could have had better games, but our issues aren't our players abilities imo - it's the execution of the gameplan.

We're pushing a lot of short passes into players running into gaps - but for whatever reason - be it the rush defences reading it well, players aren't being as accurate in contact as they should be, or they are pushing the passes a bit too much - it's accross the board. It doesn't really matter who is playing at first receiver - if the gameplan is to give the short ball to the second receiver who won't catch it in contact. Accuracy needs to improve but, the silver bullit isnt one player.

 

[ABs2011]

Here is the thing: Sopoaga may or may not have set the world alight at 1st 5/8th. If you read my initial posts regarding Sopoaga - both before and after the squad was named - is that he was probably my slight preferance to be there considering we have Barrett in utility.

With that said: expecting Sopoaga to perform in a totally different environment after one game is also very optimistic. It was likely a choice between weighing up whether to take a player in good form, or a player who is used to opperating within the environment you have worked on developing over four years. While I may have taken a punt on Sopoaga - it was hardly a strange decision to go with Slade. While we have seen a similar campaign to see Naholo be rushed in as our starting winger - it doesn't mean they are certain to deliver based on SR form (that said I hope he has a crack against Tonga from the bench).

Finally, I don't think the All Blacks problems can really be isolated to one players performance. Carter probably could be taking the ball to the line more, and all goal kickers could have had better games, but our issues aren't our players abilities imo - it's the execution of the gameplan.

We're pushing a lot of short passes into players running into gaps - but for whatever reason - be it the rush defences reading it well, players aren't being as accurate in contact as they should be, or they are pushing the passes a bit too much - it's accross the board. It doesn't really matter who is playing at first receiver - if the gameplan is to give the short ball to the second receiver who won't catch it in contact. Accuracy needs to improve but, the silver bullit isnt one player.

Really good post Nick. IMO the Sopoaga thing is pretty much a non-issue. I'm not sure why he gets so much mention. He is not at the RWC, so I'm not sure what the point is in spending so much time mulling over players that didn't make the cut. Surely more pertinent analysis should be concentrated on the players that are there and the games that are played.

As for the execution point you are talking about, I'm not sure if you saw the press conference, but that is basically what Hansen talked about. He essentially implied that basic skills has not been one of the key work ons this week, and and that the things they have been working on have seen improvement. I'm not sure I buy into that, but at least there is acknowledgement of the biggest issue right now and hopefully it is the focus of the next 7 days. He said that execution is the thing that they should be able to get right the quickest cause there is no lack of talent in the team.

As for isolating culpability for that performance to one player? Lets be honest, anyone that is doing that knows very little, if anything about the game.

 

[Kiwi_]

Really good post Nick. IMO the Sopoaga thing is pretty much a non-issue. I'm not sure why he gets so much mention. He is not at the RWC, so I'm not sure what the point is in spending so much time mulling over players that didn't make the cut. Surely more pertinent analysis should be concentrated on the players that are there and the games that are played.

As for the execution point you are talking about, I'm not sure if you saw the press conference, but that is basically what Hansen talked about. He essentially implied that basic skills has not been one of the key work ons this week, and and that the things they have been working on have seen improvement. I'm not sure I buy into that, but at least there is acknowledgement of the biggest issue right now and hopefully it is the focus of the next 7 days. He said that execution is the thing that they should be able to get right the quickest cause there is no lack of talent in the team.

As for isolating culpability for that performance to one player? Lets be honest, anyone that is doing that knows very little, if anything about the game.

Gee, I don't know, maybe because we have an answer to some of our cohesion and synergy issues sitting at home!?

It can be fixed and it's not too late.

Anyhow, we all know how lethal the Smith - Sopoaga combination is and any other country in the world would have taken full advantage of it, but we didn't because Slade and Barrett are seen as the incumbent, but I will tell you something, their form and injury issues are proving to be concerning.

But what ever, let's sit around and wait for us to "click" and "start playing" like a lot of people have been saying after every game, I've actually lost count of the amount of below average AB performances this year. I'm not saying we're going to lose, but there's so much more we could be doing to make things easier for ourselves.

The way you talk about the management ABs2011 is like they're some sort of deities that can't be questioned or thou shalt be smited.

 

[austingtir]

I dunno I think 10 and probably one of the props are about the only positions I feel the cover isnt any better than the first choice pick.

I would certainly of preferred to see Sopoaga there over either of the other two or even Carter himself. Dont get me wrong I hope he comes right but I just dont see it the history is there for all to see. He's just well well past his best play and nobody can deny that.