[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Georgia (02/10/2015)

[austingtir]

Nobody mentioning the kiwi coach that has coached a few of the AB's in the past apparently that coached Georgia in this game?

Im not reading much into it. Rusty, crap performance in a pool game. Woopty ****.

That said Carter and a few others just dont fill me with confidence at all. Im beginning to think Hansens biggest error is not taking ALL the form players he could and not dropping a couple more big names from the team.

Sopoaga is clearly the biggest selection mistake in Hansens tenure imo. These other two are not putting any pressure on Carter whatsoever.

 

[Croket66]

Good performance from the georgians, the score was 29-10 until the minute 73.

I don't understand why Haig called up prop Peikrishvili to replace injured Kubriashvili, There so many georgian props in Top14. The georgian scrum was dominant and since he was on the pitch, Georgia lost all their scrums, including 2 close to the NZ tryline.

Also, Mamukashvili was absolutely awfull in his throwings. With Bregvadze, it will be a lot different...

I think the scoreboard is a bit hard, and I would liked too see this game with a full georgian squad (the stadd made 10 changes from the starting XV who played the first 2 games). Though, I know a lot of team who lost against NZ by more than 33 pts...

Nevertheless, this team is young and with recent results from U18 and U20 teams, the future looks bright for Georgia

 

[jomjom]

Kind of agree - they all give the impression of simmering to boil, but none of them has been steady in their set piece and breakdown. Ireland and Aus have been, although a bit wobbly in their reserves.

Can't see Ireland doing it - they'll get raped at some point. Aus are a good bet. Best bet is SA.

What the hell do you mean by "raped"? If you mean losing by a big margin, then, a) I personally dont believe that will happen at all*, check the scores on Ireland matches under Schmidts record (bar that first Oz game) and b) rape is a really horrible word to use so casually

*This doesnt mean I think Ireland are going to win the WC

That aside, that was a bit shocking from NZ but I think EVERYONE knows that they will play with much more intensity and tightness come the KO stages... though for our sake I certainly hope they dont

Also when are they finally going to let Georgia into the 6N? I dont see the need for relegation play offs and all that malarky, just let them join to create the 7N. Their 2nd choice as we saw today could easily and consistently rout Italy, probably give Scotland a good run for their money too. Tbh their 1st choice team would give any of the better 6N teams a good rattling and after time these rattles turn into wins. Georgia need to join asap!

 

[austingtir]

Still rate it pretty high, as bad as we played, I don't think there's any other obviously better sides in the world. We have more world class players in areas than anyone else.

We're bad, but everyone else is worse.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Its funny when posters from certain countrys that have never won a big game against NZ pipe up with this sort of rubbish.

 

[ABs2011]

The worrying thing for the AB's is how absolutely terribly off-form most of their top players are. Read looking distinctly average, Aaron Smith frustrated and playing poorly, Kaino playing badly, Dan Carter is half the player he once was, and the front row? Absolute dross. Ireland, France and the Saffers would scrum you into the ground.

This isn't just this game either. You guys haven't hit the heights you should of for a long time.

Am I being too harsh or do you guys fear for the AB's prospects too?

How many knock ons were there tonight?

Average would be an understatement. With all due respect to Georgia that AB performance was verging on embarrassing IMO.

You list a few players, but I'm not sure there were many in the team which you could exclude in terms of sub par performances. Perhaps McCaw, Savea, and Coles could be excused from getting absolutely blasted by the coaches after that effort.

I'm not worried about the scrum. Actually that may be the only good thing that came of that game. Faumuina and Crockett got so dominated by the Georgian front row that I'm pretty sure we will not see either of them starting in the knock-outs, certainly not together anyway. The scrum dominance was completely flipped when Woodcock and Franks came on.

It was the combinations, or lack of, which were a real concern. The 8-9-10 combo was bad. The 9-10-12 (+wingers) combos off set pieces were bad, the link play between backs and forwards was bad, and then on top of that the goal kicking was bad, strategy was bad, and general execution was bad. All against a weakened Georgian team, vs our best team off an 8 DAY turnaround. It really was the most disappointing AB performance I have seen for some time.

That being said, I'm not sure it damages our chances for the cup. Hopefully it will get them to work harder. They deserve a complete bollocking after that effort and have zero excuses not to come out vs Tonga with a exponentially improved effort. If that does not happen I will be very concerned.

They play like that again vs a tier one nation and we will be out of the cup quick smart.

 

[ABs2011]

ABs need to learn to respect their opponents. The amount of forced passes, handling errors etc. you won't see it against higher ranked teams. Patience is just not there. I don't see the need for quick taps from penalties. I know they are trying to speed up the game but they need allow themselves to kick it deep, reset and then launch an attack rather than running from deep in their half.

I think Steve Hanson has allowed the players to play this loose style against the weaker opposition. Actually more so let the players dictate the style so they can learn and adapt to the situations, and that is where the players have failed especially in the last 2 games. Come quarter final I think the coaching staff will come down harder on the team to play better.

Yup, there was a distant lack of respect in the way they played. 100% agree!! McCaw basically said as much in the most match if you read between the lines as well. He looked ****** off!

With all due respect to Georgia (who defended fantastically by the way) that AB performance was verging on embarrassing IMO.
The only players I think that can be excused in that game were McCaw, Savea, and Coles.

It was the combinations, or lack of, which were a real concern. The 8-9-10 combo was bad. The 9-10-12 (+wingers) combos off set pieces were bad, the link play between backs and forwards was bad, and then on top of that the goal kicking was bad, strategy was bad, and general execution was bad. All against a weakened Georgian team, vs our best team off an 8 DAY turnaround. It really was the most disappointing AB performance I have seen for some time.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]As for the props. We had a few opinions before the game but I am wondering what you guys think now. Faumuina and Crockett got so dominated by the Georgian front row that I'm pretty sure we will not see either of them starting in the knock-outs, certainly not together anyway. The scrum dominance was completely flipped when Woodcock and Franks came on. [/FONT]

Such a poor effort from our boys!

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Nobody mentioning the kiwi coach that has coached a few of the AB's in the past apparently that coached Georgia in this game?

I'm not sure what the point of that is though. The Georgian coach, no matter how well he knows any of the AB players can't make us drop the ball, pass poorly, miss touch, miss goals, miss tackles, give away penalties, fold under scrum pressure etc etc.

I'm not sure how any AB fan could say that performance was anything other than very disappointing at the least, and verging on embarrassing.

I don't think its that big a deal moving forward, but I am certainly a little more concerned now than I was before!

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Loling at NZ fans on Twitter getting arsey about MotM.

I was so happy he got it. To give it to any of the Kiwi players would have been a joke!

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Can someone explain to me how the 4uck a bloke that plays 50 mins in a team that loses by 33 points gets Man of the Match?

I'm sorry but that is sentimental bull5hit

What All Black played well enough to deserve Man of the Match? It would have been embarrassing for any All Black to have received that award given what they put out on the paddock in that game. They had to give it to a Georgian, and Why not their Captain - he played better than any of our boys (individually) thats for sure!

 

[austingtir]

^^ Its just no surprise to me when you select guys like Carter that have done nothing of note in the last 4 or so seasons then I just dont see how anybody should be surprised at how they played.

 

[ABs2011]

^^ Its just no surprise to me when you select guys like Carter that have done nothing of note in the last 4 or so seasons then I just dont see how anybody should be surprised at how they played.

I personally still rate DC as a very good player and certainly good enough to lead the ABs to another RWC win. My issue with DC is the way he has been wrapped in cotton wool for much of the last 4 years. Hardly played Super Rugby, hardly played international rugby, and then when he does IMO he is held back, particularly the running game. He is a class player, but it has become apparent that he is not class enough just to flick the switch and play 100% whenever he wants.

 

[PacDuran]

I personally still rate DC as a very good player and certainly good enough to lead the ABs to another RWC win. My issue with DC is the way he has been wrapped in cotton wool for much of the last 4 years. Hardly played Super Rugby, hardly played international rugby, and then when he does IMO he is held back, particularly the running game. He is a class player, but it has become apparent that he is not class enough just to flick the switch and play 100% whenever he wants.

Sopoaga was robbed of his chance though. He could have ripped this WC a new butt crack considering how many tackles have been missed. He's the better player than Carter at this point. That's the cold hard truth.

I can't see this NZ team beating the Ozzies or saffers playing their top game, which they will be.

 

[psychic duck]

As for the props. We had a few opinions before the game but I am wondering what you guys think now. Faumuina and Crockett got so dominated by the Georgian front row that I'm pretty sure we will not see either of them starting in the knock-outs, certainly not together anyway. The scrum dominance was completely flipped when Woodcock and Franks came on.

The scrum dominance was flipped when the Georgian tighthead went off injured and they brought on a reserve off the bench who's only been with the squad a couple days as an injury replacement who would would be about their sixth best tighthead.

 

[ABs2011]

Sopoaga was robbed of his chance though. He could have ripped this WC a new butt crack considering how many tackles have been missed. He's the better player than Carter at this point. That's the cold hard truth.

I can't see this NZ team beating the Ozzies or saffers playing their top game, which they will be.

He was extremely unlucky. I'm still not at the point of thinking it was the wrong call though. DC must play against Tonga (with Read, Smith and Nonu), and these combinations must get worked on. Let's not forget this whole shambles today was a combination of many factors, DC was just one of them.

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The scrum dominance was flipped when the Georgian tighthead went off injured and they brought on a reserve off the bench who's only been with the squad a couple days as an injury replacement who would would be about their sixth best tighthead.

No, there was one scrum in between, where the original NZ front row faced the new Georgian one and continued to get dominated. Then the ABs swapped their front row and dominated the rest. The point is, there was an obvious difference in the effectiveness and quality of the ABs starting props vs their reserve props in this game.

 

[Mcfadden]

Haven't read anything from other posters yet. But I don't think you can pin that performance on one player. It was a combination of things. First, congratulations to Georgia for making our attacking torrid (yes we dropped passes which is our problem, but they still connected with some key tackles), for showing immense physicality and flair as well. I think this is a sign of us not handling a slower temperament style of rugby very well. It'll be interesting to see how the Aussies go against England, cause this slower pace seems to be hindering us and frustrating the players, and the concerning thing is they don't appear to have the answers. I thought we tried the short-pass too often. It doesn't work in these situations, and just results in a knock on. Our handling needs to better, but our distribution game is poor too. Coming back to my first point though. World rugby has improved, like it or not. These guys beat Tonga and IMO are more than capable of tipping up a team like Italy or Scotland.

Dan Carter is there because he is our best starting number 10. Unsure why people are having a go for. Yes his goal kicking was off, and he will need to improve on that. But Barrett is better off the bench and doesn't command the backline with the direction of Carter or Cruden. Slade has not really been in any better form than DC, and I think his skills should be preserved as cover. Besides, those two have ****les. Also - nothing of note in the last 4 years? God people have short memories. He was literally making meters at will in some games in the RC.

Naholo showed what he can do. Tbh I feel as though we didn't have the continuity and attacking prowess that he'd thrive on in this match. It was a very sluggish / boorish affair. Worth another look in the Tongan game IMO. Savea - still not firing on all cylinders, but at least he finished off some opportunities given to him. Must be due a rest.

I'm concerned. I don't expect to whip teams by a hundred. But at times we don't look as hungry as in 2011. Do we want it? Cause we should start ****ing playing like we do. Come on guys. Too many schoolboy errors. We are better than that, that's why it's frustrating.

 

[psychic duck]

No, there was one scrum in between, where the original NZ front row faced the new Georgian one and continued to get dominated. Then the ABs swapped their front row and dominated the rest. The point is, there was an obvious difference in the effectiveness and quality of the ABs starting props vs their reserve props in this game.

The starting front row faced a considerably tougher opposition front row. It's unfair to compare. We knew Franks was clearly better than Faumuina beforehand though, Laulala should have made the 31 as second choice tighthead.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Tell me the last game Dan Carter actually played good in?

 

[ABs2011]

The starting front row faced a considerably tougher opposition front row. It's unfair to compare. We knew Franks was clearly better than Faumuina beforehand though, Laulala should have made the 31 as second choice tighthead.

You missed the discussion earlier in which comparisons were being made before the match. One can only compare based on what one sees. I understand what you are saying in terms of caution given changes to the opposition BUT, there was a clear difference overall, and one opportunity to compare like for like in which a clear difference could be seen as well.

Yes, consensus before the game was that Franks is a better scrumager than Faumuina, but there was also some thoughts that this could well be the front row the ABs should stick with. After what I saw, I think that debate has largely been put to bed. When Crockett and Faumuina were on our scrum got consistently dominated (I watched every one very closely) and that changed big time as soon as the props were subbed. Based on that showing there is no doubt in my mind: Start with your best scrummagers and bring the more athletic ball carriers on later.

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Tell me the last game Dan Carter actually played good in?

v OZ @ Eden Park

 

[Mcfadden]

I agree Carter needs to be more accurate with the goal kicking. But what do you want him to do? Our continuity was hindered chiefly by handling errors. I saw people like Retallick and Read make those mistakes. It's a collective issue that almost everyone was complicit in. We need to look beyond the easy answers. Sopoaga wouldn't just come along and magically manufacture the team cohesion.

 

[ABs2011]

Double up

 

[Toko_11]

hmm we need World scrum rankings methinks.

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It was a good game in general.. I will need to watch replay in order to determine how each of our guys performed but overall I have nothing to complain about... we did start off sluggishly, our line wasn't shifting fast enough and tbf tackling from our wings and FB wasn't exactly top notch.. but everyone did their best and we kept the game close until late 2nd half..

So here are the few things I picked up from the terrible quality stream but I'll re-watch later and adjust if I get anything wrong.

#1 Asieshvili - has had a decent tournament, he Is never going to be our 1st choice but he works hard and has done everything that was expected of him and more. I feel like he isn't someone who can lead the first line and dominate the opposition ( a gift that the likes of Nariashvili, Chilachava, Zirakashvili don't lack) but if paired with a good Hooker and Props he delivers good performances

#2 - Mamukashvili - I think the bad injury definitely hurt his form, and It's a double whammy because he was in the form of his life when he got injured. Nothing to worry about in long term though I expect him to be back in form and delivering strong performances when he gets some game time with his club. All he really needs to fix is his line out delivery. but he has had better overall performances than he has showcased on this wc.

#3 - Chilachava - I thought he was one of the best today, Dominated the opposition props, worked hard at the ruck and moved around quite a bit too... he is a well rounded world class prop not just a scrummager.

#4 - Chkaidze - I have a great respect for this man, he has worn the lelos Jersey so many times I can't even imagine the team without him, but at this point I think he is way past his prime to recover any form. If we go back through the years we will see that he was an impact player who constantly made himself known with tackles, line outs, rucks and great defense, but I think he has lost that fire he once possessed, now he mostly fills the space so Nemsadze can rest.

#5 - Datunashivili - You have to admire this guy, I have never seen a big game where he didn't deliver. a Big guy for big games. He isn't scared of anyone and isn't afraid to take the lead when team is having a bad spell in the game. A player like him is a definite asset... i wish he was a bit younger tbf, another guy who will be hard to replace.

#6 - Sutiashvili - Had a difficult game overall but I haven't noticed him enough to comment on his game atm I'll have to rewatch

#7 - Gorgodze - No comment needed

#8 - Lomidze - he did make a couple of small mistakes early on but responded well and had a great game in the end. I think he is a great talent but he has a habit of falling asleep.. It would be nice if someone made him really angry before every game.. would bring out his best game.

#9 - Begadze - He won the ball that ended in a historic try for us.. he plays well defensively and doesn't shy away from tackles but he clearly isn't cut out to be our scrummy for much longer.

#10 - Malaguradze - Great performance from him, I always thought this guy deserved more game time, Coaches only ever give him a one off game while resting the main #10 but if he plays enough to get the feel of the team he is a really good fly.. perhaps can't play the back line as well as Khmaladze but is a better kicker, tackler and a defender.

#11 - Todua - His weak points are still those darn tackles, especially against the big guys. I think he wasn't entirely convincing tonight.. even though he did one or two useful things, but that was expected as he just came back from injury and hasn't really played with the team in a while.

#12 - Mchedlidze - He missed a couple of tackles but worked very hard and improved throughout the game, he is slow for a wing but strong and athletic. he is turning into one of the leaders in this lineup

#13 - Kactcharava - Is a freak player, I don't know how he manages to be this good while playing in siberia.. Maybe he wrestles with bears somewhere in the ice desert.. The guy is a rock wall of a defender. he did drop the ball once but running with it isn't his specialty anyway.

#14 - Aptsiauri - Really harsh game for our wings in general.. going up against monsters like Savea and Naholo is hard for anyone especially for a relatively inexperienced wing.. although he could've at least slowed them down if he had been on time for some of the tackles.. but that's more of a fault to team defense rather than the wing alone

#15 - Tsiklarui - Definitely proved me wrong for criticizing him, And I'm not just saying that due to the try he scored. I have never seen him play like he did today.. no knock ons, was reliable at the back.. you didn't feel scared every time kiwis kicked the ball... now he needs to practice competing for high ball though. Not gonna be our first choice anyway but definitely a respectable performance tonight.. try was well deserved.

 

[ABs2011]

AB press conference. What do you think?

[video]http://file2.stuff.co.nz/089/12781089.mp4[/video]

I think Richie probably held back on what he really wanted to say.

I think Hansen's comments could be a little reassuring, but listening to him, it reminds me of AGMs I've been in where I hold a stock that is in price decline and you sit there listening to a CEO tell you about all the great things that are happening at the company while glossing over the main issues. That is perhaps a little harsh, but if he is going to say they have been working on areas and not others, I'd like to know what areas they've been working on that they feel they have improved on since Namibia.

 

[austingtir]

Sopoaga was robbed of his chance though. He could have ripped this WC a new butt crack considering how many tackles have been missed. He's the better player than Carter at this point. That's the cold hard truth.

I can't see this NZ team beating the Ozzies or saffers playing their top game, which they will be.

Australia is no problem for us they are one trick ponys with Hooper and Pocock you can read them like a book. Southafrica on the other hand IF they click have the physical power to beat us into submission. Australia cant do that and wont be able to in a crunch match. And SA is unlikely to "click" in this tournament.

Im not worried about Australia in the least. (unless Barnes is reffing).