[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Georgia (02/10/2015)

[Kiwi_]

10 sets the backline and Dan isn't so quick on his toes anymore, so they will have to work around this, I think you will see us playing a territory game in the knock out games and challenging their line outs. We will have to turn teams and suck defenders in, we will have to keep it in the forwards and build phases to open up some room outside for our backs. The wingers got little room vs Georgia, because we didn't use the forwards as much.

 

[nickdnz]

Gee, I don't know, maybe because we have an answer to some of our cohesion and synergy issues sitting at home!?

It can be fixed and it's not too late.

Anyhow, we all know how lethal the Smith - Sopoaga combination is and any other country in the world would have taken full advantage of it, but we didn't because Slade and Barrett are seen as the incumbent, but I will tell you something, their form and injury issues are proving to be concerning.

But what ever, let's sit around and wait for us to "click" and "start playing" like a lot of people have been saying after every game, I've actually lost count of the amount of below average AB performances this year. I'm not saying we're going to lose, but there's so much more we could be doing to make things easier for ourselves.

The way you talk about the management ABs2011 is like they're some sort of deities that can't be questioned or thou shalt be smited.

What you seem to have a lot of trouble understanding - is that because players perform well within one system - they are guaranteed to replicate it for another. Nonu/Smith were probably the best centre combination for the Hurricanes this year - but you yourself have criticized them for the All Blacks. The Hurricanes had the best scrum success of any team in Super Rugby - yet only one front rower made it. Julian Savea made the third most running metres, second most clean breaks, third most defenders beaten, in the competition and scored 8 tries - yet according to half your posts you think he is over the hill. Super Rugby combinations and form demonstrably doesn't always carry over - particularly as Hansen won't be asking players to play in exactly the same way as Joseph did..

From what I have seen, there isn't a lack of cohesion specifically between Aaron Smith or Daniel Carter. How does bringing in Lima Sopoaga, make Kieran Read or Sonny Bil Williams catch the short ball? You would think all of our 1st 5/8ths game management has been terrible listening to you. Goal kicking hasn't been great (keeping in mind there have been some very rough kicks), but I don't watch the last game and think "wow, Carter had a shocking game".

 

[ABs2011]

Gee, I don't know, maybe because we have an answer to some of our cohesion and synergy issues sitting at home!?

It can be fixed and it's not too late.

Anyhow, we all know how lethal the Smith - Sopoaga combination is and any other country in the world would have taken full advantage of it, but we didn't because Slade and Barrett are seen as the incumbent, but I will tell you something, their form and injury issues are proving to be concerning.

But what ever, let's sit around and wait for us to "click" and "start playing" like we've been saying after every game. I'm not saying we're going to lose, but there's so much more we could be doing to make things easier for ourselves.

It's just a bit monotonous mate, and no matter how on to it we think we are Hansen and co aint reading this so you can say it once or 1000 times, it won't change anything I get that it frustrates you he's not there but at some point you have to suck it up and accept that the players we have there are the ones who will take the field.

On the other point, It will not be "fixed". The AB selectors will not back flip on arguably some of the most considered and important selection decisions of their careers. The only way Sopoaga gets a look in is through world cup ending injury to one of the other guys. Little ****les won't induce squad change mid cup.

 

[Kiwi_]

Kiwi. What you seem to have a lot of trouble understanding - is that because players perform well within one system - they are guaranteed to replicate it for another. Nonu/Smith were probably the best centre combination for the Hurricanes this year - but you yourself have criticized them for the All Blacks. The Hurricanes had the best scrum success of any team in Super Rugby - yet only one front rower made it. Julian Savea made the third most running metres, second most clean breaks, third most defenders beaten, in the competition and scored 8 tries - yet according to half your posts you think he is over the hill. Super Rugby combinations and form demonstrably doesn't always carry over - particularly as Hansen won't be asking players to play in exactly the same way as Joseph did..

From what I have seen, there isn't a lack of cohesion specifically between Aaron Smith or Daniel Carter. How does bringing in Lima Sopoaga, make Kieran Read or Sonny Bil Williams catch the short ball? You would think all of our 1st 5/8ths game management has been terrible listening to you. Goal kicking hasn't been great (keeping in mind there have been some very rough kicks), but I don't watch the last game and think "wow, Carter had a shocking game".

But Sopoaga did perform well in South Africa. Also I never criticised Conrad and Nonu that heavily, maybe one post about their age or current form, probably have me mixed up with another user. That stat for Savea.. he scored some tries vs Namibia and Georgia, hopefully he brings that form into the bigger games, because he had a big try drought before that, he's lucky we had average opposition to play himself into form again, also please tell me again how average Fekitoa was today. Your condescending lecture doesn't change the fact we could be doing things better.

 

[ABs2011]

What you seem to have a lot of trouble understanding - is that because players perform well within one system - they are guaranteed to replicate it for another. Nonu/Smith were probably the best centre combination for the Hurricanes this year - but you yourself have criticized them for the All Blacks. The Hurricanes had the best scrum success of any team in Super Rugby - yet only one front rower made it. Julian Savea made the third most running metres, second most clean breaks, third most defenders beaten, in the competition and scored 8 tries - yet according to half your posts you think he is over the hill. Super Rugby combinations and form demonstrably doesn't always carry over - particularly as Hansen won't be asking players to play in exactly the same way as Joseph did..

From what I have seen, there isn't a lack of cohesion specifically between Aaron Smith or Daniel Carter. How does bringing in Lima Sopoaga, make Kieran Read or Sonny Bil Williams catch the short ball? You would think all of our 1st 5/8ths game management has been terrible listening to you. Goal kicking hasn't been great (keeping in mind there have been some very rough kicks), but I don't watch the last game and think "wow, Carter had a shocking game".

Yup exactly. This seems to be lost on some! Particularly when it comes to stepping up to test match rugby.

- - - Updated - - -

But Sopoaga did perform well in South Africa. Also I never criticised Conrad and Nonu that heavily, maybe one post about their age or current form, probably have me mixed up with another user. That stat for Savea.. he scored some tries vs Namibia and Georgia, hopefully he brings that form into the bigger games, because he had a big try drought before that, he's lucky we had average opposition to play himself into form again, also please tell me again how average Fekitoa was today. Your condescending lecture doesn't change the fact we could be doing things better.

That's one game though bro. 1 test vs 108 tests.

I'm not sure what the gripe is with Savea still. He is improving every game. Scoring tries, and certainly the best performing wing of the tournament so far out of the 3 we took over there. And luck has nothing to do with it. The draw is what it is and everyone has known it for some time. He has the 4 pool play games to get back up to speed and from what I can see he is more than on track.

Anyway, each to there own I guess regarding opinions.

How you feeling about the props after that game? Most were indicating preference for the two starters vs Georgia, but I suspect that has to have changed somewhat after that performance based on the scrums alone. Perhaps a good example of what age and experience can bring to the table I reckon!

 

[nzlizard]

Gee, I don't know, maybe because we have an answer to some of our cohesion and synergy issues sitting at home!?

It can be fixed and it's not too late.

Anyhow, we all know how lethal the Smith - Sopoaga combination is and any other country in the world would have taken full advantage of it, but we didn't because Slade and Barrett are seen as the incumbent, but I will tell you something, their form and injury issues are proving to be concerning.

Thing is A Smith is not on super form either but I don't hear you bagging him at all, sorry haven't read it in this thread and his world cup has been average over the 2 games he has played.

Anyway, the kicking thing is the way it goes, sometimes it is not your day, every decent kicker has had 10 of these days, yup Carter could be running a bit more, but he ain't and Sopoaga didn't get selected. So harping on about him non stop is not going to change it.

They are not going to swap players mid WC unless injury dictates it, and yet it hasn't.

That stat for Savea.. he scored some tries vs Namibia and Georgia, hopefully he brings that form into the bigger games, because he had a big try drought before that, he's lucky we had average opposition to play himself into form again, also please tell me again how average Fekitoa was today. Your condescending lecture doesn't change the fact we could be doing things better.

At this stage Savea > Nahalo based on today's game, Nahalo needs another game against Tonga to show us what he has.

 

[Boomslangnz]

Calm down about DC. He's playing fine, hard to look great at 10 when your forward pack isn't dominating the breakdown. He's still a class player and you just gotta get in behind him rather then bag him first chance you get. They are building form.....I expect a far better performance next week against Tonga and then unleash the trigger come QF time.

 

[nickdnz]

But Sopoaga did perform well in South Africa. Also I never criticised Conrad and Nonu that heavily, maybe one post about their age or current form, probably have me mixed up with another user. That stat for Savea.. he scored some tries vs Namibia and Georgia, hopefully he brings that form into the bigger games, because he had a big try drought before that, he's lucky we had average opposition to play himself into form again, also please tell me again how average Fekitoa was today. Your condescending lecture doesn't change the fact we could be doing things better.

The stats I mentioned were from Super Rugby - that competition you are basing picking Sopoago on.

Big try drought being 4 games. Now the top try scorer currently in the RWC.

Fekitoa played well today. Happy to give credit where credit is due (you should try it regarding Savea - or does the poor opposition argument only work for the players you dislike ).

I think in every post I have said there are thing we could be doing better. I just don't think repeating "why oh why wasn't Lima selected?! He'd solve all our issues. Can we replace him for Slade!" - is the quick-fix that you seem to think it is. The personal we currently have - for better or worse - are now the best prepared people to win the Rugby World Cup. Playing like they are, they may not get that. But bringing in someone else and asking them to execute the same game plan better - without the preparation - just isn't all that likely.

 

[Scrum Bum]

I thought he played a really good game - so arm chair critics disagree I guess.

What I find funny is that none of us have our jobs on the line with these selections, none of us are with the team 24/7, none of us know these players inside and out nor have access to the detailed data the keep on each and every player, and none of us get paid boat loads of money cause we are brilliant minds of rugby and can coach a team to world domination, yet many of us are very quick to jump on some of these players and coaches like the are thick as pig **** and can't coach or play the game to save themselves.

Might be food for thought some times

Well this forum is a forum, it's not like we're gonna have Ted debating with Jake White/Heyneke Meyer/Robbie Deans et al online.

Just because we're armchair critics doesn't mean our points are completely invalidated by the fact that we're just commoner lowly folk. That sir is a Fd up way of thinking. My opinion on Slade and Sopoaga comes from watching them BOTH play for my super rugby side and the ABs. If the game didn't have anyone giving a toss online or at your local pub about the teams performances then there would be no game. No one here has professed to knowing more than the head honchos, they've simply questioned some of their decisions and as far as the past games have shown, rightfully so. If we all turned off our computers and said nothing we might as well pack up and move to Iran or North Korea. And if I really did think I knew more than Hansen and co., I'd say something outrageous like they should've picked the whole Highlander forward pack...

 

[austingtir]

I dont see how anybody can back Carter up. You take Mccaw and Carter and tell me which ones performing and which ones been performing consistently for the AB's since year dot?

It sure as **** isnt Carter!!! He's been like the invisible man since 2011.

And just because Savea scores a couple of sitter tries against georgia means he's a half decent winger again? Give me a friggin break!

Naholo's got nerves and you can clearly see that the pressures on him to perform in one or two games. But you can also see in the breaks he's made that he's really special and I for one hope he settles because I think he's better than Savea in his current form.

 

[Scrum Bum]

I agree, Carters also faded most. He's been patchy and shown glimpses of his old class but I haven't seen that line breaking/silky running which maybe ended around 2008/2009. Both have been injured badly, but I think Carter's have taken more of a toll on him.

 

[Mcfadden]

I agree 100%, Nick and I hope my earlier posts echoed similar sentiments. I love the way Sopoaga plays. We could sit in a room and have a yarn about how awesome he is all day. But like you said - Dan Carter has nothing to do with a dropped catch by SBW or a knock on from Read. I will admit goal kicking is important and DC is lacking based on that. But that wasn't the issue there today. Look I don't want to make excuses, but we have been playing under northern hemisphere referees, at northern hemisphere grounds against northern hemisphere opposition which we know next to nothing about. It's a failure within our system that we aren't counteracting or responding to their rush defence or purposeful slowing of the game.

If they want to wrestle in mud, then that's what we have to do. Our guys look like they're still in Super Rugby mode where you play at a gazillion miles an hour. Teams like Ireland, France, England (if they get through) will be taking note, and when they use this style they'll be ten times better. I tried to say this before the WC started. You are very seldom going to play at that frenetic pace, WC rugby is totally different

 

[81st_Minute]

Brilliant game by the All Blacks. I have all confidence they will be in the finals.

 

[ABs2011]

Well this forum is a forum, it's not like we're gonna have Ted debating with Jake White/Heyneke Meyer/Robbie Deans et al online.

Just because we're armchair critics doesn't mean our points are completely invalidated by the fact that we're just commoner lowly folk. That sir is a Fd up way of thinking. My opinion on Slade and Sopoaga comes from watching them BOTH play for my super rugby side and the ABs. If the game didn't have anyone giving a toss online or at your local pub about the teams performances then there would be no game. No one here has professed to knowing more than the head honchos, they've simply questioned some of their decisions and as far as the past games have shown, rightfully so. If we all turned off our computers and said nothing we might as well pack up and move to Iran or North Korea. And if I really did think I knew more than Hansen and co., I'd say something outrageous like they should've picked the whole Highlander forward pack...

Forget it mate, you've missed the point and then gone off on some kind of weird tangent.

By the way, completely unrelated to the above, how do you block/ignore people on this site?

 

[austingtir]

I agree 100%, Nick and I hope my earlier posts echoed similar sentiments. I love the way Sopoaga plays. We could sit in a room and have a yarn about how awesome he is all day. But like you said - Dan Carter has nothing to do with a dropped catch by SBW or a knock on from Read. I will admit goal kicking is important and DC is lacking based on that. But that wasn't the issue there today. Look I don't want to make excuses, but we have been playing under northern hemisphere referees, at northern hemisphere grounds against northern hemisphere opposition which we know next to nothing about. It's a failure within our system that we aren't counteracting or responding to their rush defence or purposeful slowing of the game.

If they want to wrestle in mud, then that's what we have to do. Our guys look like they're still in Super Rugby mode where you play at a gazillion miles an hour. Teams like Ireland, France, England (if they get through) will be taking note, and when they use this style they'll be ten times better. I tried to say this before the WC started. You are very seldom going to play at that frenetic pace, WC rugby is totally different

Even the commies said they could hear that pass from Aaron smith bounce off SBW's chest because it was just fired at him ridiculously hard. Read on the other hand does need to wake up he's another thats not up to standard but I think he knows that.

I agree with you about the other stuff and iv been saying all year WC's are a different beast and pretty much played under different rules to the regular tests. It will be tight and we arent going to just run other teams off the park after next week. Guys like Peranara and I suspect Kerr Barlow could be more useful than many originally thought.
Kerr Barlow is huge defensively and Hansen and co are going to have some sleepless nights coming up trying to figure out who best to select I reckon. I personally suspect at a WC Kerr Barlow might be the better bench player.

The big problem in this particular match is I feel after Naholo's try the rest of the team felt it was going to come easy and didnt build the foundations first. We seemed to skip it wide at every opportunity and it was just not working.
SBW is in pretty good form so I have no idea why he wasnt used more to crash it up. The few times they did try that it was poorly executed as well which probably didnt help.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Do you really have to prance about every thread making these comments? He appologised just leave it be.

You think that was a real apology?! Honestly kids. You just can't play nice.

 

[barthelemy]

Even if the blacks have done many handling errors, I think we should recognize the very good and tight defense of Georgia. Half of the handling errors of the blacks were defo a result of the high defensive pressure put by the Georgians.

 

[ncurd]

You think that was a real apology?! Honestly kids. You just can't play nice.

Yeah it was actually pretty poor form he looked to apologise and then made light of it again at the end. I missed it on my first read, it was insulting to the user, women and made light of rape.

 

[Mcfadden]

Even if the blacks have done many handling errors, I think we should recognize the very good and tight defense of Georgia. Half of the handling errors of the blacks were defo a result of the high defensive pressure put by the Georgians.

That has been recognised by myself and others.

 

[81st_Minute]

Georgia played really poorly IMO.