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[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Argentina (20/09/2015)

Which part do you think was an accident?

He thought he was wrapping his hand around another head shaped part of Retallicks body?

Or he didnt realise Retallick has eyes on the front of his head?

I really couldnt care less weather it was or wasnt an accident the fact is the punishment does not fit the crime in this instance. A warning or one or two games at most for this one is more than sufficient.

What really irks me about it is if they had found this WHILE the game was still going what punishment would of been dished out. I say again they are walking a fine line between totally ruining this WC for teams over incredibly minor incidents.
 
If eye gouging was illegal enough to end one's career, none of the South Africans would be playing (and food poisoning. Yes, we remember).
 
In the history of international rugby can you give me one instance where someones career was ended by an eyegouge?

Im sorry but its utter BS I couldnt care less what the rules are. You politically correct ***** need to get a life.


Utter utter BS!!!
And your an ignorant one-eyed ****tard whom I haven't seen contribute one decent post the entire time I've been here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8663226.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/johnbeattie/2009/12/the_insanity_of_eye_gouging.html



And you will forever be the ****ing idiot who out of all the NZ posters though what McCaw did on Saturday was an 'accident' and NOBODY agreed with you.

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In the Beatie blog he gets involved in the comments some of that is pretty interesting.
 
I really couldnt care less weather it was or wasnt an accident the fact is the punishment does not fit the crime in this instance. A warning or one or two games at most for this one is more than sufficient.

What really irks me about it is if they had found this WHILE the game was still going what punishment would of been dished out. I say again they are walking a fine line between totally ruining this WC for teams over incredibly minor incidents.

Really? An incredibly mionr incident? What a moronic phrase to use over what could have ended a player's career. The laws of the game are quite clear. Keep away from the head and neck. Go near them and you run the risk of being accused of reckless and denagerous play, and that's what actually happened here. It's not clear whether eye contact was intended and the citing officer's report reflects that. However, what is not in question is the fact that he did quite deliberately target the head and face. No sympathy at all will be forthcoming from anyone who has anything between their ears. I don't include you in that.
 
And your an ignorant one-eyed ****tard whom I haven't seen contribute one decent post the entire time I've been here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8663226.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/johnbeattie/2009/12/the_insanity_of_eye_gouging.html



And you will forever be the ****ing idiot who out of all the NZ posters though what McCaw did on Saturday was an 'accident' and NOBODY agreed with you.

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In the Beatie blog he gets involved in the comments some of that is pretty interesting.


What Mccaw did was a reflex action what do you call it? He admitted it was wrong and it was unintentional. But a politically correct biased fool like yourself wouldnt understand simple things like that would you??

Just as I thought you couldnt find a single incident on the international stage where someone was eye gouged and it caused permanent injury! Your a retard because anybody that does eye gouges like the above wouldnt make it far in rugbyl in just about any country in the world now. They should be tried as a criminal just as that article you posted says. Iv got no problem with that at all.
 
Really? An incredibly mionr incident? What a moronic phrase to use over what could have ended a player's career. The laws of the game are quite clear. Keep away from the head and neck. Go near them and you run the risk of being accused of reckless and denagerous play, and that's what actually happened here. It's not clear whether eye contact was intended and the citing officer's report reflects that. However, what is not in question is the fact that he did quite deliberately target the head and face. No sympathy at all will be forthcoming from anyone who has anything between their ears. I don't include you in that.

Good post mate. I'm in disbelief reading some of the posts recently in this thread to be honest.

Name calling as well guys, good grief! Seriously, how old are some of you?
 
Really? An incredibly mionr incident? What a moronic phrase to use over what could have ended a player's career. The laws of the game are quite clear. Keep away from the head and neck. Go near them and you run the risk of being accused of reckless and denagerous play, and that's what actually happened here. It's not clear whether eye contact was intended and the citing officer's report reflects that. However, what is not in question is the fact that he did quite deliberately target the head and face. No sympathy at all will be forthcoming from anyone who has anything between their ears. I don't include you in that.

Its an incredibly minor incident. All I want to see is a fair judicial system based on what actually happened not suggesting what could of happened or saying that something as minor as this is some sort of international incident deserving of a player being kicked out of a WC team (which its not).

Again show me and instance of an eye gouge ending an internationals career?
 
Time to give up Austingtir. When in a hole it is best to stop digging.
Your comments are ridiculous.
 
What Mccaw did was a reflex action what do you call it? He admitted it was wrong and it was unintentional. But a politically correct biased fool like yourself wouldnt understand simple things like that would you??

Just as I thought you couldnt find a single incident on the international stage where someone was eye gouged and it caused permanent injury! Your a retard because anybody that does eye gouges like the above wouldnt make it far in rugbyl in just about any country in the world now. They should be tried as a criminal just as that article you posted says. Iv got no problem with that at all.

Point 1: Every time someone breaks the laws of the game, it's a reflex action. That doesn't make it an accident. By the way, what McCaw actually said (and he certainly comes out of this looking far smarter than you) was, "I knew straight away it was a reflex thing that you knew wasn't the right thing to do and I suffered because of it . I put the team under pressure which you can't afford to do." So, far from claiming it was unintentional, he admitted, to use his words, that it was "dumb". Now, if only we can get you to that point...



Point 2: So it's OK to end an amateur's career by gouging, but it's also OK to allow it as long as a professional doesn't suffer permanent damage. The point of having laws at all, especially those which seek to protect players' safety, is to stop future incidents, not to somehow make amends for the past. It's idiotic to propose that we wait for something bad to happen before we do something to prevent it.
 
Its an incredibly minor incident. All I want to see is a fair judicial system based on what actually happened not suggesting what could of happened or saying that something as minor as this is some sort of international incident deserving of a player being kicked out of a WC team (which its not).

Again show me and instance of an eye gouge ending an internationals career?


And, in this case, as you'd know if you'd actually read the report I posted instead of just looking at the pictures, that's exactly what happened. There was doubt as to his intention to make contact with the eye, and so the report eflected that. However, there was no doubt left as to his purposeful grabbing around the face area, and so he was punished for this reckless behaviour. QED.
 
Point 1: Every time someone breaks the laws of the game, it's a reflex action. That doesn't make it an accident. By the way, what McCaw actually said (and he certainly comes out of this looking far smarter than you) was, "I knew straight away it was a reflex thing that you knew wasn't the right thing to do and I suffered because of it . I put the team under pressure which you can't afford to do." So, far from claiming it was unintentional, he admitted, to use his words, that it was "dumb". Now, if only we can get you to that point...



Point 2: So it's OK to end an amateur's career by gouging, but it's also OK to allow it as long as a professional doesn't suffer permanent damage. The point of having laws at all, especially those which seek to protect players' safety, is to stop future incidents, not to somehow make amends for the past. It's idiotic to propose that we wait for something bad to happen before we do something to prevent it.

Nobodys ended anybodys career when are you going to wake up out of the politically correct fantasy land that your pulling this crap out of???

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And, in this case, as you'd know if you'd actually read the report I posted instead of just looking at the pictures, that's exactly what happened. There was doubt as to his intention to make contact with the eye, and so the report eflected that. However, there was no doubt left as to his purposeful grabbing around the face area, and so he was punished for this reckless behaviour. QED.

No thats what the judiciary might be claiming happened that doesnt make it so. Argentina has a right to appeal.

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"""""They said Retallick, who also attended the hearing, said there was no intention on Galarza's part to hurt him and that New Zealand's team doctor had said an eye injury the citing officer had spotted on the match video was not from Sunday but from a previous training session."""""
 
Nobodys ended anybodys career when are you going to wake up out of the politically correct fantasy land that your pulling this crap out of???

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No thats what the judiciary might be claiming happened that doesnt make it so. Argentina has a right to appeal.

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"""""They said Retallick, who also attended the hearing, said there was no intention on Galarza's part to hurt him and that New Zealand's team doctor had said an eye injury the citing officer had spotted on the match video was not from Sunday but from a previous training session."""""


"I was involved in a lineout which became a maul. In the maul, I was standing up trying to get through the maul and to the ball. I felt an arm around my head. I then felt a hand go through my left eye which caused my contact lens to come out. I did not require any medical treatment for my left eye other than having a replacement contact lens at halftime."

"Contact was made right across my left eye. Contact was made by just a finger across the eye. The finger dug in on my eye as it went across it for no longer than 2 seconds".

He was questioned by the Player's representatives, by Mr Rutherford and by me. He had not seen the footage of the incident. He said the abrasion below his left eye was caused in training on the Friday before the match. He has had a contact lens dislodged 3 or 4 times before whilst playing. It had always been dislodged through direct contact, namely "something has made contact across the eyeball". He said that such contact need not be "very strong" but there had always been direct contact with the lens to cause it to be dislodged. He could not remember reacting to this incident and he did not make a complaint to the Player at any point because "I had other things to worry about in a game of rugby".
2.16 He was asked to describe the nature of the contact and he said it went "like that across my eye" at which point he demonstrated a sweeping motion across his left eye, from (his) left to right He then said this: "when I said dug in [in my statement] I didn't mean with a finger point it was...the way I recall it, the hand sort of went across my whole face like that" and again demonstrated a sweeping motion across his face, from (his) left to right. He was then shown the footage. He said the contact was made with part of a finger to his eyeball. The finger exerted pressure but that pressure was across his eye. He did not feel any inward pressure onto the eye. Asked if he could remember how he felt when that contact was made, he replied he could not."

These are the statements made by Retallick, both to the citing officer and to the hearing. I'm just curious, but where is inent mentioned? Come to that, what bearing would that have, given that the hearing accepted lack of intent to damge the eye. Is English your first language?


Just to calrify (although I now realise I'm probably ******* in the wind arguing with an idiot who thinks it's Ok to grab another's face during a game on the basis that no professional has yet been blinded that we know of), here's the citing officer's findings:

My finding as to whether that contact constitutes an act of Foul Play:
(a) I am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the Player targeted the eye and eye area. The contact with the eye and eye area was not intentional or deliberate. He did not look for or seek out the eye deliberately.
(b) However, in my judgement he intentionally reached out for and grabbed the Player's head and face. Further, I am satisfied he knowingly made contact with NZ4's face. With his hand placed on NZ4's face in the way I have described he then deliberately used force to pull his head backwards. In the act of grabbing his face and pulling back his head, he made contact with the Player's eye in the way I have described. I am satisfied that contact was not accidental but was reckless. It was reckless because he knew or ought to have known that in grabbing an opponent's head and face in the way described, there was a risk of committing an act of foul play; there was a risk he would make contact with the opponent's eye or eye area as in fact, he did.
(c) Therefore I am satisfied on the balance of probabilities that he committed an act of Foul Play (TDP Clause 10.8.4)

No, knidly furnish me with your eveidence that this player has been pubnished for eye gouging. Or shut up. Some hope.
 
I see two camps here (disregarding trolling and flaming).

1) The people who see what happened, check the rules, and see that according to both the established procedure has been applied appropriately.
2) The people who see what happened and although understand and agree with 1)'s procedure, think/feel the punishment the rules dictate doesn't fit the crime in this instance. Not because the rules do/don't say so, but because they can think of quite a few instances where in their eyes more heinous crimes have received more lenient punishments.

We'll never find a middle ground because we are talking about different things. j'nuh's post has a good balance between 1) and 2).
 
@YoungScud said pretty much everything I have to say.

I should say as a few members called me out on it and they were perfectly right, personal insults are wrong in any discussion regardless of how heated they get.

Also here the definition of political correctness.
Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct, commonly abbreviated to PC) is an ordinarily pejorative term used to criticize language, actions, or policies seen as being excessively calculated not to offend or disadvantage any particular group of people in society.
I'm not entirely sure how it's being "politically correct" to agree with strong rules that are there to discourage players from taking actions that could blind another player.
 
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Curses. Backed up by an Englishman. I'll be blackballed from the William Wallace Society.
 

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