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RWC: New Zealand - Tonga (09-09-2011, 20:30)

So that was on FTA 9 right?

From most Aussie TV ratings, it seems Foxtel gets most of the Rugby Ratings.. So i will wait for the Foxtel and GEM ratings.. and perhaps the regionals.

Make sure you post them bro. I'm always interested in rugby ratings. Australia is a bit ****ed because only about 30% of households have foxtel and channel nine's coverage is poor. Hard to grow the game when it's not properly covered on FTA. So they showed it live on GEM in Melb, Adelaide and Perth? What about Brisbane and Sydney the two biggest markets? I guess 10pm isn't too late and a lot of viewers would keep watching after the league.
 
Make sure you post them bro. I'm always interested in rugby ratings. Australia is a bit ****ed because only about 30% of households have foxtel and channel nine's coverage is poor. Hard to grow the game when it's not properly covered on FTA. So they showed it live on GEM in Melb, Adelaide and Perth? What about Brisbane and Sydney the two biggest markets? I guess 10pm isn't too late and a lot of viewers would keep watching after the league.

Yea.. The RWC clashed with the league, so no doubt more Sydney and Brisbane peeps were watching the league.
 
What a shame the opener to the 2011 RWC was spoiled by such a poor refereeing performance.

► Players off their feet constantly at rucks.

► Side entry at rucks by both teams.

► Red players consistently offside in the midfield.

► the BS obstruction call on McCaw

► The shoulder charge on Carter not penalised.

► Nonu allowed to pass off the ground.

► The AB scrum-half persistently being grabbed without the ball at ruck time.

Clancy will know he has had a shocker tonight. POB will not be impressed, especially as he told all the RWC referees to be vigilant on side entry and players going off their feet at tackle, ruck & maul.

I counted three high shots and one punch to the head all targeted at Kahui in the game. None picked up
 
Tonga most probably have the best scrum of all the Pacific Islands and have had so for a while now. I think their scrummaging and mauling is very underrated on the world stage particularly their driving Maul. Filise is def NOT their first choice at loosehead so I think their scrum will improve pairing Taumalolo/Tonga'uiha with Kisi Pulu. It def showed an improvement when Taumalolo and Pulu came on in the 2nd half as the Tongans had the advantage over the All Black scrum in the latter stages of the 2nd half.

I see Taumalolo scrum a lot he obviously plays his Rugby in New Zealand, IMO he's a very average scrummager, out of all the chiefs props over the last few years he is one of the worst come scrum time. Makes me believe that a lot of the power in the Tonga scrum is coming from somewhere else. I believe Joe Tuineau is the main reason the Tonga Scrum was good. Though over the whole game the AB's scrum was better.
 
He was picked on sentiment. Not on form.

He needs to be dropped.

I don't think that's fair, he was one of the form locks in NZ towards the end of the super15 and looked like he was on the improve every week for the last half of the comp. I also think though he has stuff he needs to work on he hasn't been that bad. If Williams can hold onto the ball better I'd rather have him than Whitelock. That Said I hope they Give Boric a chance. I think Boric and Thorn should be the #1 combo and Williams will have some impact off the bench.
 
New Zealand weren't particularly convincing, played good rugby in flashes but an improvement is needed.
 
Okay.. Am going into RL mode.
TV ratings in NZ for the RWC have just been announced.
http://www.throng.co.nz/ratings/tv-ratings-9-september-2011
The Opening Ceremony

Total of 1,387,770 tuned in over the 3 channels of TV1, Maori and Sky


The RWC Match between NZ vs Tonga total = 1,635,780… Woot.
The NZ population est = 4,393,500…. So 1 in every 4 NZers were watching the match..


Will hope to see the Aus and UK figures later.. Anyone knows where french TV ratings can be seen?

I think you need to compare the TV viewing numbers to households rather than population. It's not like everyone in NZ watches the game on their own TV. Those figures are pretty awesome considering that. All you have to sat is that on average 2 or more people would likely be watching per TV and it would be safe to say everyone in NZ was watching (that wasn't at the game or in the public areas to watch it)

Crazy stats.
 
I thought it was a good game, the best part was that Kahui was MOTM. Leading up to the game when ever anyone asked me how I thought the AB's would do I just said I don't care I just **** Kahui to play well as I've been saying he should be a starting winger if he's not used at 13. So I'm a happy man. Other than that it was a good game and the AB's will take more from it than a 60point thrashing. The reality is Tonga are a better team than that now and they have had good preparation coming into this game.

The key for the AB's was winning the Physical battle early. They did that and it gave the backline the space to move the ball and score. That said the All Blacks could have and should have scored more points.

Missed chances

Sonny Bills disallowed try early on, I think this was just a case of a bad call from the ref. It wasn't obstruction from McCaw, the tongan player tackled McCaw not the other way around and he wouldn't have had an impact on the following play anyway.

Toeava missed a very good SBW offload which would either resulted in a try or close to it. just a case of players that run off sunny bill need to be ready. No player can use the "I didn't expect it" excuse when it comes to SBW offloads.

Toeava also stuffed up another chance created by SBW from a grubber through (brilliant grubber actually). IF Toeava had stayed running left he would have scored but he cut in and took a tackle. Botched a try.

Toeava foot in touch as he scored. Should have finished better than that. Only mm in it.

Few other minor missed chances. Kahui knocked on a Nonu pass that looked forward anyway but I dont think the ref got it. Vito hashed a chance when he lost the ball in contact close to the line and Sonny Bill turned the ball over on the line.

All these missed chances really suggests to me that the AB's need to select a best team and stick with it, they are the kind of mistakes that dont happen as much when a team/players are match hardened.

AB ratings:

1, Woody - solid game, playing quite well. Expect him to play most if not all games to get match fit, only 45min. 5/10
2, Hore - quiet game for him though one awesome turnover which ended in a try for the AB's, Credied with 2 turnovers (best for NZ) 6/10
3, Owen Franks - Good at scrum time and solid around the field as always. 6/10
4, Thorn - Good effort overall, scrum is much better with him on. Though I think he should carry the ball more, only credited with 4 tackles. 5/10
5, A Williams - Not a bad game but has things to work on. Solid and physical on defense and taking the ball up. Needs to standout more at the lineout IMO 4.5/10
6, Kaino - he was the pick of the forwards, top ball carrier forward though stats suggest he was below average in other areas his 90m is impressive for a forward and some of his tackles had some serious sting in them. 7/10
7, McCaw - If you think he had a quiet game think again, topped the tackle count, arrived at more breakdowns than any one else and was 2nd only to Kaino as a ball carrier. No Wonder opposition teams try and hold him down for as long as they can at rucks. He may not have the impact at breakdowns Pocock has but he's better everywhere else. 7.5/10
8, Vito - Quiet game, hardly registers in the stats, hashed a try with a knock on close to the line. Was good on defense early in the game 4.5/10
9, Cowan - poor game by Cowan's standards ok at times but clearance as slow overall and kicking wasn't great either 5/10
10, Carter - Kinda looked like he took the game easy but he ran the game well and did what he needed. 6/10
11, Toeava - some good and bad. some powerful running but failed to finish a number of chances to score. 6/10
12, SBW - good game, created many chances and layed on a number of trys. Should have been given one early, sucked in a LOT of defenders. Toeava botched a couple of trys layed on by SBW. 7/10
13, Nonu - an ok game from nonu but not spectacular, he gave himself a 3/10 he wasn't that bad. couple nice touches and he was very good in scoring his try linking with slade. But I'm struggling to figure out how a 13 can get through a game and only be credited with 2 tackles (haka.co.nz)... 5/10
14, Kahui - MOTM performance, scored two trys, layed on a couple of others. Brilliant kick and regather to put Kaino in to score. Solid on defence and faultless under the high ball. What was so impresive is that he operated well on the wing and finished well and he also came in and operated in midfield as an attacking option in that area. I've been saying for a long time that Kahui needs to be involved and should be in the starting 15 and I think this performance proves that. But the best thing about Kahui is that if a game isn't going his teams way he has the ability to come up with big plays to turn games. 8/10
15, Dagg - solid game, scored a couple of trys and came up with a nice play to setup another. But overall he did make some poor decisions that would have put the AB's under a lot of pressure against stronger oposition. and he spilt the ball mroe than Toeava did. 6.5/10

Reserves, apart from ben franks who did ok none got much gametime. Weepu was better than cowan but not spectacular. Scrum was worse when Whitelock came on for Thorn. Not much of note happened with the reserves.

On that note my top team now would be:

1, Woodcock
2, Hore
3, O Franks
4, Thorn
5, Boric
6, Kaino
7, McCaw
8, Vito (only because there are no other options, Read needs to get fit again ASAP)
9, Weepu
10, carter
11, Kahui
12, SBW
13, Smith
14, Jane
15, Mills

16, Mealamu. 17, Ben Franks. 18, A. Williams. 19, Whitelock. (Thompson not fit). 20, Cowan. 21, Slade. 22, Nonu

Honestly I think there is nothing between Williams and Nonu right now. Nonu has more experience but Williams is clearly better on defence. Williams is better starting though and hasn't been as good coming off the bench - it doesn't work for him. kahui needs to be one of the starting wingers and Mills experience, ability to hold posission and setup his outsides is more important than Daggs Running game. Though it's tempting to run Dagg on the other wing to Kahui. Jane didn't impress in the last game against Australia.

I dont understand why Messam isn't in for Thompson, You're backup guys are in the squad to cover for injury when they get injured themselves I don't see the need to carry them and when a key player in a similar position goes down they become a liability, now thompson is injured after he played a major role in the All Blacks two tri nations losses. Messam should have been put into the squad. I know key thing now is to get Read fit ASAP, but if he isn't messam would without a doubt be a safer option. He doesn't get injured, he doesn't give away penalties or drop ball and he wouldn't have missed that tackle on Samo :p

Go the All Blacks!

On A closing note the opening cerimony was very impressive and great for New Zealand. I have a lot of respect for Maori Culture and one thing the Maori do better than pretty much every other culture in the world is Welcomings and fairwells. That was the Best RWC opening I've seen and it's up there with the best openings of any similar event ever IMO. I didn't think it was going to be that great but myself and all the people I watched it with were in awe. Interestingly the Maori welcome also came with a warning (according to a Maori friend I watched it with). great stuff!
 
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^^^ Agree with most of that, apart from your assertion that there is nothing between SBW and Nonu right now - In my opinion Nonu proved throughout the Tri-nations he is the the premier 12 in New Zealand, if not the world. SBW had a good game, but he's hardly been outstanding for the AB's this year, while Nonu has been consistently impressive. I thought Nonu had a pretty good game despite not being in his best position; he looked more dangerous with the ball in hand than SBW. I also disagree that SBW is 'clearly better in defence'. Nonu was only credited with two tackles, but that was simply because Tonga seldom spread the ball wide - according to the haka.co.nz stats the entire AB's back three was credited with only 2 first-up tackles for the match! It is pretty simply - you can't make tackles if no-one is running at you... As I've shown before, Nonu and SBW had almost identical defensive record during the Super Rugby season - I don't think there is much at all between them defensively.
 
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^^ Agree with that mostly. I think we have to now start looking at Kahui as a winger who can cover centre, he is far better on the wing.

Williams is worse than Whitelock, he is invisible round the paddock. Agree that Boric/Thorn should start.

Dagg played well enough to cement his spot, he created that try for Kahui out of nothing and has a knack for scoring himself. Mils is a good experienced backup.

I'd stick with Non at 12u, one reasonably good game against a lesser team doesn't make you number one. He still made soem glaring errors too it wasn't all good from SBW. Nonu was solid, played very well at 13 I thought.
 
Never said Nonu was a bad player and with the battle between the two of them Nonu has the edge with the fact he was given the chance SBW wasn't during the tri nations. Despite the -ve comments SBW was good in the last springbok game. He didn't get much space from the springbok defense and still did well.

Saying Nonu isn't making many tackles because opposition aren't running the ball to his part of the park doesn't cut it anymore, I've been hearing it a number of times after most tests this year when Nonu's come nowhere on the tackle sheet with others around him are doing a lot of work on defense. Most of the time players aren't setup 10 -13 in midfield wingers outside and fullback under the posts outside set piece time. In phase play players, in particular mid fielders should be rotating in the areas with the most traffic so individuals don't get overloaded on defense. If you have the game recorded go to around the 9th minute. Sonny Bill helps carter with a big hit drives the player back then gets up and sprints back into the line and makes another big tackle straight away. Go to the First test against Australia at eden park and Nonu left Carter high and dry on defense that game. Carter was 2nd on the tackle count with about 15 and Nonu was way down the bottom. Seems pretty clear to me that carter is under a lot less pressure when SBW is outside him.

Nonu is a great attacking player, but SBW isn't far behind in that area and he's also shown that he can put in some great little kicks. Something that Nonu and Conrad smith for that matter lack at times. One area that nonu has a clear edge is Experience, and for me that's what makes it such a close battle.

One thought I can't shake though is that this WC like most others is going to be about Defense and holding possession when you have the ball. It's going to be key. Which is why I don't like everyone calling for Nonu over SBW and Dagg over Mills. Because IMO SBW is clearly a better defender than Nonu and Mills is clearly better at retaining possession compared to Dagg (who lost the ball in contact 5-6 times in the bok test and twice against Tonga - something Mills hardly ever does)

The competition is good though it does make it hard to settle on your best match day 22. AB's are in a situation where we don't have a clear best 22 but it's too late to experiment. now is the time to pick your best 22 and stick with i, because it's more important now that the players develop combinations and get game time.
 
^^What about SBW's lack of ball security then? Are you going to hold him to the same standard you apply to Dagg? He lost it once in a great attacking position, and knocked on early in the game putting us under pressure in our 22. So that's the same number of cough ups as Dagg. He also has a tendency to throw offloads at ill advised times (seems he is curbing it a bit though).

Agree he is very good on defence, and I like his work in the ruck, he is pretty strong seems hard to move when he gets himself over the ball, slows opposition ball down well.
 
Nonu is currently better than SBW. There shouldn't even be a comparison.

If this was 5 test match Nonu who played alot out on the wing versus SBW right now - then SBW would win.
 
Never said Nonu was a bad player and with the battle between the two of them Nonu has the edge with the fact he was given the chance SBW wasn't during the tri nations. Despite the -ve comments SBW was good in the last springbok game. He didn't get much space from the springbok defense and still did well.

Saying Nonu isn't making many tackles because opposition aren't running the ball to his part of the park doesn't cut it anymore, I've been hearing it a number of times after most tests this year when Nonu's come nowhere on the tackle sheet with others around him are doing a lot of work on defense. Most of the time players aren't setup 10 -13 in midfield wingers outside and fullback under the posts outside set piece time. In phase play players, in particular mid fielders should be rotating in the areas with the most traffic so individuals don't get overloaded on defense. If you have the game recorded go to around the 9th minute. Sonny Bill helps carter with a big hit drives the player back then gets up and sprints back into the line and makes another big tackle straight away. Go to the First test against Australia at eden park and Nonu left Carter high and dry on defense that game. Carter was 2nd on the tackle count with about 15 and Nonu was way down the bottom. Seems pretty clear to me that carter is under a lot less pressure when SBW is outside him.

Nonu is a great attacking player, but SBW isn't far behind in that area and he's also shown that he can put in some great little kicks. Something that Nonu and Conrad smith for that matter lack at times. One area that nonu has a clear edge is Experience, and for me that's what makes it such a close battle.

One thought I can't shake though is that this WC like most others is going to be about Defense and holding possession when you have the ball. It's going to be key. Which is why I don't like everyone calling for Nonu over SBW and Dagg over Mills. Because IMO SBW is clearly a better defender than Nonu and Mills is clearly better at retaining possession compared to Dagg (who lost the ball in contact 5-6 times in the bok test and twice against Tonga - something Mills hardly ever does)

The competition is good though it does make it hard to settle on your best match day 22. AB's are in a situation where we don't have a clear best 22 but it's too late to experiment. now is the time to pick your best 22 and stick with i, because it's more important now that the players develop combinations and get game time.

Why not? Based on that logic, Kahui is a hopeless defender, as he didn't even make a single first-up tackle! As I've mentioned before you can't judge players statistics on individual matches - you need to compare them over a much longer period (i.e over the season). If you do that you find that Nonu and SBW have near identical stats. Tonga simply did not spin the ball out through the backline throughout the game; stats (www.foxsports.com.au) suggest that Mailei ran with the ball 1 time, Hufanga 2 times, Piutau 1 time, and Iongi 1 time. They spent the whole time running in close to the ruck, or slightly wider in Carters/SBW's channel. The 'players around' Nonu weren't doing a lot of work in defense - only two backline players made more than two tackles, and these were the two players inside Nonu (where the Tongan's were running!). If Nonu was playing 12 and SBW 13 I think you would find the tackle count would be reversed accordingly. You suggest that players aren't setup in their positions in the backline in defence - this is often the case, but this was clearly not the case versus Tonga, as since Tonga never spread the ball wide the outside defenders never had to move out of position.

Incidentally Richard Kahui made exactly the same number of tackles when he was in the 13 jersey vs South Africa (2), and missed 4 - statistically a far more shocking performance than Nonu, yet you didn't mention a thing about this! If you are 'struggling to work out how a 13 can go through a game only making 2 tackles' how to work out how a 13 goes through a game and makes only two tackles and misses 4 :eek:
 
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I thought it was a good game, the best part was that Kahui was MOTM. Leading up to the game when ever anyone asked me how I thought the AB's would do I just said I don't care I just **** Kahui to play well as I've been saying he should be a starting winger if he's not used at 13. So I'm a happy man. Other than that it was a good game and the AB's will take more from it than a 60point thrashing. The reality is Tonga are a better team than that now and they have had good preparation coming into this game.

Freudian slip?
 
Also if you're playing centre you never slide in looking for tackles, it's the other way round. You often shuffle out to swap with forwards so they can get closer to the ruck as to not be exposed wider out.
 
Why not? Based on that logic, Kahui is a hopeless defender, as he didn't even make a single first-up tackle! As I've mentioned before you can't judge players statistics on individual matches - you need to compare them over a much longer period (i.e over the season). If you do that you find that Nonu and SBW have near identical stats. Tonga simply did not spin the ball out through the backline throughout the game; stats (www.foxsports.com.au) suggest that Mailei ran with the ball 1 time, Hufanga 2 times, Piutau 1 time, and Iongi 1 time. They spent the whole time running in close to the ruck, or slightly wider in Carters/SBW's channel. The 'players around' Nonu weren't doing a lot of work in defense - only two backline players made more than two tackles, and these were the two players inside Nonu (where the Tongan's were running!). If Nonu was playing 12 and SBW 13 I think you would find the tackle count would be reversed accordingly. You suggest that players aren't setup in their positions in the backline in defence - this is often the case, but this was clearly not the case versus Tonga, as since Tonga never spread the ball wide the outside defenders never had to move out of position.

Incidentally Richard Kahui made exactly the same number of tackles when he was in the 13 jersey vs South Africa (2), and missed 4 - statistically a far more shocking performance than Nonu, yet you didn't mention a thing about this! If you are 'struggling to work out how a 13 can go through a game only making 2 tackles' how to work out how a 13 goes through a game and makes only two tackles and misses 4 :eek:

I'm not using this one game as an example I thought I had made that clear, if it was just one game it wouldn't be worth bringing up. I'm talking about basically the whole tri nations as well but the first two home tests in particular plus this last game. the Aussie game in particular where Carter made like 15 tackles and Conrad Smith made 8 and in between them Nonu only made 2-4 or something like that. It's not one game, one game is not enough to draw a conclusion but it's what 4 tests? At least 3 where Nonu hasn't been a factor at all on defense or been very poor in defense where players around him have had to do a lot of work.

Plus if a team is running close to the ruck it doesn't mean the 13 is off duty as far as defense goes. If the 12 makes a tackle and is stuck in the ruck 13 needs to come in and take the next one. That or they are closer in on the other side of the ruck.

Honestly the only excuse I can think of for Nonu is that it is part of the game plan to keep nonu's workload low on defense so he can preserve energy and concentrate on his running game. Which could be a valid point but seeing how Carter was peppered in that first Aussie game in particular while Nonu stood back and watched it doesn't make sense. Or see John Smit run in a try under Nonu's feet in the first Bok test. Nonu went back and did nothing and left the hard work to Carter who charged at and hit Smit.

Yes I agree kahui's stats on defense in that one test against SA weren't great and they do warrant a closer look because of his missed tackles one was a desperate dive tackle and though he missed he did enough to slow the player down else it could have ended in a try and other the others though he missed the first up tackle the player didn't actually go past him or the defensive line.

And the two tackles hie did make, were probably the best tackles in the game - check out this vid of Kahui in that test match, which features two of his tackles...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3LsUXS6OQ8

And on a good day Kahui can turn a game and inspire his side with his defense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGNZssC_eCs

Honestly I don't understand how people can't see it? In their time on the park this year I'd imagine SBW is making double the amount of tackles for the amount of game time they have had. And there is more too it than "people aren't running the ball at Nonu". That actually may be worth going away and getting some statistics for. I know in the Aussie test in particular SBW came on for about 10min and his tackle count was the same as Nonu's was for the full 80min.
 
oh god and I can't even edit it. It's almost as bad as the predictive texting on my old phone a few times I text people I was going to "hit the hay" (as in go to bed) but it sent as "hit the gay" lol!
 

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