Tri Nations: Springboks - All Blacks @ Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium (20-8-2011, 15:05)

[Dizzy]

So South Africa start with the TRF Shield and they finish with it too

Boring game but a win's a win, congrats to the Boks

That's right a wins a win... Whats the TRF Shield?And who competes for it?

 

[smartcooky]

The All Blacks created so many opportunities, that they should have scored at least another four or five tries, and it wasn't really the Springbok defence that stopped them so much as their own unforced errors.

The Springboks created absolutely nothing, no penetration with ball in hand and while they will be happy to take the win, it will be of concern to them that they have been unable to score a try in 160 minutes of rugby, at home. That is the first time they have failed to score a try at home in the 3N since it began in 1996.

This was an opportunity to really stick to them, lost through their own mistakes. This the one that got away.


The referee, George Clancy, was rubbish; tacklers allowed to hold on, players allowed to go off their feet at the tackle, players coming in the side, offsides not called all over the park. He was, as they say in the Republic... KAK!

 

[Dizzy]

The All Blacks created so many opportunities, that they should have scored at least another four or five tries, and it wasn't really the Springbok defence that stopped them so much as their own unforced errors.

The Springboks created absolutely nothing, no penetration with ball in hand and while they will be happy to take the win, it will be of concern to them that they have been unable to score a try in 160 minutes of rugby, at home. That is the first time they have failed to score a try at home in the 3N since it began in 1996.

This was an opportunity to really stick to them, lost through their own mistakes. This the one that got away.


The referee, George Clancy, was rubbish; tacklers allowed to hold on, players allowed to go off their feet at the tackle, players coming in the side, offsides not called all over the park. He was, as they say in the Republic... KAK!

lol I was patiently waiting for your input smartcooky. I think it was Nisbo who begged the question "Who's reffing this game here?"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's right a wins a win... Whats the TRF Shield?And who competes for it?

Everybody!
The winner of the WC starts with it after the WC, then it's competed for every match that they play in, until it changes hands through a loss
Like the Ranfurly Shield

http://www.therugbyforum.com/features/trf-international-shield

 

[Jer1cho]

Israel Dagg showed why I regard him as the best 15 in world rugby currently.

We were lucky the AB's were too inexperienced to finish off their chances. We didn't look like threatening the line throughout the entire match. Not good enough. Fourie du Preez is crippling our backline, and Francois Hougaard is one amazingly talented player, easily good enough to be our starting 9. Absolutely amazing chase and tackle on Dagg to stop that try. Pity it won't happen though.

Brussouw has to start every game for us. Definitely in the same league, if not better than McCaw and Pocock at stealing the ball.

We needed this win though, but I am not liking the fact that we kicked almost every ball away that we got. Every break the All Blacks made came from useless aimless du Preez or Steyn kicks. Our poor backs can't do anything because they never get the ball. Bismark du Plessis needs to start. If Smith has to play, let him come off the bench.

Other than that, ask yourself why our B-Team gets hammered by 40 points, whereas the AB's gave us a solid run. Puts things in perspective doesn't it? A lot of work needs to be done if we are to have any hope of winning the WC.

 

[Sneaki]

Well ok then, can't say I'm pleased about the result but there are positives alongside the negatives of course. I thought the entire backline looked strong apart from Slade who had a poor game, notably Toeava and Dagg who cut them apart at times and made for what will be some interesting calls when the squad is named. Thomson may not always have been in the wrong when he was penalised, but he needs to be able to adapt to anal referees like todays one. Most of the forward pack looked okay I guess, can't say there were any massive standouts there, Kaino looked strong on defense as usual. Also the Boks couldn't score a try, and have only managed one in the last three games which isn't encouraging for them really.

The negatives, well ball handling was awful to begin with, so that never helps. And we were consistently knocked around at the breakdown too, I though Messam looked fairly average, but Vito didn't exactly tear them apart either so nothing will change there. The referee was bloody shocking tbh, we still had our chances but his bending of the rulebook was mildly disturbing on the Cowan try, though the TMO should cop it too for not knowing what he can and can't look at. He didn't let the team play the way that guys like Joubert do, and that suits the Boks fine of course.

Looking forward to seeing our A-team in action again next weekend, to hopefully get a bit more momentum back before the WC.

Also the outside backs in the WC I think will be: Sivivatu, Jane, Toeava, Dagg and Muliaina. I love Gear as much as the next guy and he was better today, but the other four have taken their chances superbly.

 

[lance2010]

Bring back Aaron Cruden...
What to do with Israel Dagg he's too good not to have in the starting XV but do you play him ahead of Mils or do you play him on the wing with Mils at fullback.

There are going to be some outside backs pretty nervous right about now.

 

[Dizzy]

Israel Dagg showed why I regard him as the best 15 in world rugby currently.

We were lucky the AB's were too inexperienced to finish off their chances. We didn't look like threatening the line throughout the entire match. Not good enough. Fourie du Preez is crippling our backline, and Francois Hougaard is one amazingly talented player, easily good enough to be our starting 9. Absolutely amazing chase and tackle on Dagg to stop that try. Pity it won't happen though.

Brussouw has to start every game for us. Definitely in the same league, if not better than McCaw and Pocock at stealing the ball.

We needed this win though, but I am not liking the fact that we kicked almost every ball away that we got. Every break the All Blacks made came from useless aimless du Preez or Steyn kicks. Our poor backs can't do anything because they never get the ball. Bismark du Plessis needs to start. If Smith has to play, let him come off the bench.

Other than that, ask yourself why our B-Team gets hammered by 40 points, whereas the AB's gave us a solid run. Puts things in perspective doesn't it? A lot of work needs to be done if we are to have any hope of winning the WC.

Bro, PDV is a complete idiot for taking Bismark off, and you could tell by the look on his face that he didnt want to come off at all. You don't take off one of your prime go-forward men, that's just stupid.
I think Brussouw was helped by the ref a hell of a lot with his incosistent calls at the ruck, I swear I heard the ref call "hands off, hands off, hands off, hands off" on two seperate occassions and not even suggest an advantage when they finally took their hands off the ball. And at one point he called hands off, the springbok player didnt listen and took the ball anyway, ref was so hesistant he didn't even call play on, he just stood there.

But, I gotta say Brussouw would have been MOTM for the Boks.

On another note, man them Boks are such tough guys eh?.. I mean seriously, just because you tackle somebody and force a knock on doesn't mean whilst you're both getting up you give the man a shove, let alone a couple shoves as if your some He-Man. Theres so many meat heads in the Springbok team it's not funny, and I had a ton of respect for Ashley Johnson throughout the Super Rugby competition until he shoves SBW, SBW looks and doesnt think anything of it and looks straight back at the referee then Johnson gives him a light slap around the head, What is that?

 

[Sneaki]

Just checked, George Clancy is reffing in the RWC, and doing the opening game too. Eww!

 

[Dizzy]

Bring back Aaron Cruden...
What to do with Israel Dagg he's too good not to have in the starting XV but do you play him ahead of Mils or do you play him on the wing with Mils at fullback.

There are going to be some outside backs pretty nervous right about now.

Bro, my honest opinion, Dagg surpasses Mils in so many areas it's just not funny. I think because he is a safe player and has been around since the Jurrassic age [and the fact he is the dual leading capped test player] Henry keeps him as his number 1, and I guess it's also because he has done the Black Jersey alot of good over the years

 

[ozmanoshe]

Well I think there will be a lot fewer people complaining about having older heads in the ABs side. You can see what having less experience can do, the young guys look plenty dangerous on attack, but they don't finish well and aren't adept at building pressure. Slade was very disappointing it almost looked like he gave up on several occasions.

The backline movements often looked disjointed with players overrunning and awful passing - particularly by Slade.

I am hoping this game will finally convince the selectors that Messam is a waste of time at test level. How many kick-able penalties did Thompson give away? His performance underscored why you don't want to go to a World Cup without a specialist openside backup. It was also pretty apparent just how much extra oomph Thorn provides in a scrum.

I think Kahui and Dagg definitely did enough so along with Jane and Sivi will get the callup. SBW was ****, arguably worse than Nonu on defense going high all the time and allowing his mark to make a lot of meters as a result or on some occasions bouncing off tackles. He looked slow and vulnerable and his passing speed is very lethargic. Nonu will have happily sewn up the starting berth.

All in all it's important to keep in mind most of these guys are coming back from injury had stuff all game time. If Henry is serious about winning the World Cup he needs to put the 3N ***le on the line and play some of these backup players again. As we saw with the Boks it takes a t least 2 games for combinations to start gelling.

 

[kusta]

Brussouw has to start every game for us. Definitely in the same league, if not better than McCaw and Pocock at stealing the ball. Other than that, ask yourself why our B-Team gets hammered by 40 points, whereas the AB's gave us a solid run. Puts things in perspective doesn't it? A lot of work needs to be done if we are to have any hope of winning the WC.

I think Heinrich is probably better than the two...though I expect to be slummed for this,but bear in mind Heinrich had not played international rugby since 2009 barring last weekend and honestly in 2009 he was the best loose forward in the world,making Mccaw look average!


And regards to us getting thumped 40-7,sure our attack needs A LOT of working on, but bear in mind we left 21 players and they only left 9,meaning we were playing with a completely new team most who might not even be going to the world cup,while they had some players who I reckon most might be going with I reckon about 8 or less not going! So I wouldn't say its a train smash just yet....But yeah our attack was rather pathetic to say the least!

 

[Dizzy]

Well I think there will be a lot fewer people complaining about having older heads in the ABs side. You can see what having less experience can do, the young guys look plenty dangerous on attack, but they don't finish well and aren't adept at building pressure. Slade was very disappointing it almost looked like he gave up on several occasions.

The backline movements often looked disjointed with players overrunning and awful passing - particularly by Slade.

I am hoping this game will finally convince the selectors that Messam is a waste of time at test level. How many kick-able penalties did Thompson give away? His performance underscored why you don't want to go to a World Cup without a specialist openside backup. It was also pretty apparent just how much extra oomph Thorn provides in a scrum.

I think Kahui and Dagg definitely did enough so along with Jane and Sivi will get the callup. SBW was ****, arguably worse than Nonu on defense going high all the time and allowing his mark to make a lot of meters as a result or on some occasions bouncing off tackles. He looked slow and vulnerable and his passing speed is very lethargic. Nonu will have happily sewn up the starting berth.

All in all it's important to keep in mind most of these guys are coming back from injury had stuff all game time. If Henry is serious about winning the World Cup he needs to put the 3N ***le on the line and play some of these backup players again. As we saw with the Boks it takes a t least 2 games for combinations to start gelling.

Isn't that why we didn't win the last world cup?.. I'm not entirely 100 percent completely and utterly certain but I think they called it "Rotation Policy" I say NOOOO!

 

[ozmanoshe]

Question - was that illegal what the ref did with disallowing the Cowan try (no doubt about it being forward though). I thought the video ref can only rule on the grounding and once you go to him the only question you can ask is Try or no try? Many New Zealanders may be asking where this Ref was during the last WC against France

Hopefully it gets him ejected as a WC ref as he doesn't look like he's up to it.

Probably the boks biggest concern is the public show of discontent by Bismark. That sort of thing can eat away at a team. Just look at what Mat Giteau did for the Brumbies.

 

[smartcooky]

The stats pretty much tell their own story


[TABLE="width: 465, align: center"]
<tbody>[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]South Africa
[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, width: 150"][/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]New Zealand[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Tries[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0 from 0[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Conversion goals[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0 from 1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]5 from 5[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Penalty goals[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0 from 1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]100.0%[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Kick at goal success[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]1 (1 missed)[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Dropped goals[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]Kick/pass/run[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Kicks from hand[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]110[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Passes[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]151[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]81[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Runs[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]223
[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Metres run with ball[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]680[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]Attacking[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]1
[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Clean breaks[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Defenders beaten[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Offloads[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 69 from 75 (92.00%)[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Rucks won[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 76 from 83 (91.57%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Turnovers conceded
[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]Defensive[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]105[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Tackles[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]81[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Missed tackles[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]88.24%[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Tackling success rate[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]90.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]Set pieces[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]9 won, 0 lost[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Scrums on own feed[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]7 won, 1 lost[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 100.0%[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Scrum success rate[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 87.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]7 won, 1 lost[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Lineouts on own throw[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]14 won, 1 lost[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 87.5%[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Lineout success rate[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 93.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]Discipline[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Penalties conceded[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0/0[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Yellow/red cards[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0/0[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

 

[DanCarterite]

I can't say I'm either surprised or indeed worried by the result, it was always going to be a huge ask with the untested combinations and the players returning from injury. Having said that however, this was much more a game that was lost rather than a game that was won. A minimum of six tries went begging, five of them to the AB's and one to the Boks.

The positives for the Bok's are firstly a win is a win and that creates confidence, secondly that all their players looked sharper than they did last week, other than that, I really don't think there are too many positives for the Boks to take away. They lacked any creativity on attack, and if it were not for opposition mistakes the defence would have leaked an awful lot of tries. They will be happier going into the World Cup but I don't think their chances of lifting the trophy have actually improved. The major negatives are the way the NZ backs carved up the defence and their own inability to cross the try line.

The positives for the AB's can be summed up in three names, Dagg, Toeava and Kahui. This was the test to see if they were fit enough in form enough and hungry enough to go to the world cup, all three answered with a resounding yes, particularly Dagg. With their utility and the form they showed in this game it would be hard to select SBW over Kahui and certainly on this performance Gear is a long way behind Dagg and Toeava. The line break ability and defence were excellent.

The negatives, Slade didn't fire, not that he did that badly, just inexperience and a bit of loose passing. The finishing, I expect an AB team with that many chances to convert more than one, it was mostly handling errors which should not be happening at this level. No 9's should be given a quota of kicks, like one each per game, or at least No 9's with the surname of Cowan. Other than that there was nothing really negative except for Thompson.

As to the World Cup prep, this was good prep as far as locking in the selections, it was also good mentally for the team to get a reminder that they can loose. So long as the A team fires well against the Aussies then I think we are in pretty good shape.

 

[Dizzy]

Question - was that illegal what the ref did with disallowing the Cowan try (no doubt about it being forward though). I thought the video ref can only rule on the grounding and once you go to him the only question you can ask is Try or no try? Many New Zealanders may be asking where this Ref was during the last WC against France

Hopefully it gets him ejected as a WC ref as he doesn't look like he's up to it.

Probably the boks biggest concern is the public show of discontent by Bismark. That sort of thing can eat away at a team. Just look at what Mat Giteau did for the Brumbies.

It was illegal, it was completely right but completely illegal.. I feel since this has happened, something has to be changed about the rules, because all year round we have seen from the TMO players dislodging the ball from players in possession and it has been declared a knock on which is completely wrong. Now that this has happened, I feel the refs really need to step their game up because they are ruining almost every single game nowadays. All throughout the Super Rugby competition they made wrong decisions. But they justify their actions after the game all the time no matter how wrong they are.

And this will not get him ejected from the WC, If anything it will get him a final because alot of writers are gonna write articles up and the referees have to stand by their appointed referees.

Concerning Bismark, I feel for the guy, I really really do, its clear he is one of the Boks outstanding players, and for him to be taking a backseat ride behind someone he knows doesn't deserve to be ahead of him, that would be really frustrating

 

[lance2010]

I would like to see SBW get another run at 12 with Conrad Smith at center just to settle him in abit more,we all know Ma'a will be the starting 12 but if SBW is going to be the back up this guy needs as much game time now under his belt before we hit the knock out stages of the WC.

The WC squad gets named next week should be very intrusting who get selected for the backs.

 

[Icemn]

The Boks are in **** land...but once again 1 diminutional Bok fans will take the win at any cost.... an A strength Bok team vs a B AB team...yet the bold struggled to get through...they won the game on goal kicks... But the SA fans are happy???? If I was a SA supported I would have been fcken ashamed.... Cuz if the NZ A team failed to score a try 2 weeks ago vs a SA b-team, I would have been ******...but nothing was read into that game... why is every Bok supporter reading into this game??? SA struggled!!!

 

[ozmanoshe]

Isn't that why we didn't win the last world cup?.. I'm not entirely 100 percent completely and utterly certain but I think they called it "Rotation Policy" I say NOOOO!

No that was when he fielded 2 entirely different 22s on a regular basis. Rested a number of players for several weeks in the Super 14 and put them on 'reconditioning' programmes with stuff all rugby. This time around there has been none of that.

What I'm proposing for the wallabies test is to restore Thorn and Read to the forwards, restore Nonu and Smith to midfield and select Dagg, Toeava/Sivi and Jane as the back 3. The have Slade start at 10 again and pick whoever they want as the backup at 7.

If Slade still can't run the ship and they still get caned at the breakdown, the scrums still have problems and the Backs still can't complete a movement without it breaking down with the tryline in sight, then it will be a bit more clear just how many of these guys they can actually afford to play at one time together without the All Blacks falling over.

On the bench you'd have Richie, Mils, and Carter who you could sub in to provide you with the contrast you need to see how the team plays differently when they're on the field. I saw this same approach used by Henry with the subs made against the Boks, he subs in player where there is a perceived weakness to determine if that weakness is caused by the player or by the support e.g. were the scrums crap because Afoa wasn't up to it or because the locks behind him are shitty scrummagers.