Tri Nations: All Blacks - Springboks @ Westpac Stadium (30-07-2011, 07:35 GMT)

[Seaton]

Missed tackles is wrong. I remember after watching the game and they were going through the stats, it showed 24 for South Africa.

It depends on what you consider a missed tackle to be

 

[Seaton]

I wonder what will happen in the re-match in SA... I womder how many of the "injured 21" will make remarkable returns to the field for that game?
My guess is we will see a full strength Bok side in that game (or at the very most- 1-2 players off full strength).

Right enough, Schalk burger will just rip-off his cast, Andries Bekker gone back in time and not had a season ending injury/ operation, Heinrich Brussouw will have secretly have had an entire half season of game time behind him and be 100%, likewise with Juan Smith, Guthro Steenkamp, Willem Alberts, Bakkies Botha, Duane Vermuelen, Bismarck du Plessis etc...

 

[Rhyer]

Right enough, Schalk burger will just rip-off his cast, Andries Bekker gone back in time and not had a season ending injury/ operation, Heinrich Brussouw will have secretly have had an entire half season of game time behind him and be 100%, likewise with Juan Smith, Guthro Steenkamp, Willem Alberts, Bakkies Botha, Duane Vermuelen, Bismarck du Plessis etc...

I do find it funny that 21 of the top players are injured, no one else. You must surely think this is suspicious as well, I mean come on, no one else is injured right now, only the top players. I know there are a few legit ones like Juan Smith, Schalk Burger and maybe Heinrich Brussouw as he is always injured. Everyone else just seems to be over exaggerated. I don't care though as France will trounce even your best team come the world cup because most of your players are dirty little ******** that will end up with red cards for eye gouging and head butting.

 

[Thingimubob]

I do find it funny that 21 of the top players are injured, no one else. You must surely think this is suspicious as well, I mean come on, no one else is injured right now, only the top players. I know there are a few legit ones like Juan Smith, Schalk Burger and maybe Heinrich Brussouw as he is always injured. Everyone else just seems to be over exaggerated. I don't care though as France will trounce even your best team come the world cup because most of your players are dirty little ******** that will end up with red cards for eye gouging and head butting.

Not really much need for that. And anyway, not as if the French never do those things...

 

[JW.]

I do find it funny that 21 of the top players are injured, no one else. You must surely think this is suspicious as well, I mean come on, no one else is injured right now, only the top players. I know there are a few legit ones like Juan Smith, Schalk Burger and maybe Heinrich Brussouw as he is always injured. Everyone else just seems to be over exaggerated. I don't care though as France will trounce even your best team come the world cup because most of your players are dirty little ******** that will end up with red cards for eye gouging and head butting.

[sarcasm]Oi, you don't get to hate other nations we get to hate the french . [/sarcasm]

I agree though it all looks very supicious but if it is a tactic it's a bad one. Loosing games affects a team.

 

[beerholder]

PDV turned this tri nations into a fiasco. It would have been better if SA just stayed home if the tournament meant so little to them. It's a lack of respect for the other teams that don't have their players train in a secret base for the World Cup and actually enlist top players.

 

[Gavin]

PDV turned this tri nations into a fiasco. It would have been better if SA just stayed home if the tournament meant so little to them. It's a lack of respect for the other teams that don't have their players train in a secret base for the World Cup and actually enlist top players.

Why shouldn't he have a camp for players for the world cup? All other nations, bar those in the Tri-Nations are all in world cup camps.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Erm, I think people are forgetting we actually have legit injuries even though it does look fishy I know. I can assure everyone that the Stormers players all are carrying legit injuries. Of the others I can't verify but am sure they are carrying at least ****les (sore backs etc) I've heard of; the staff and doctors have every right to have kept those players in cotton wool and be 100% and not rush them back (like the Cheetahs did with Brusow in the S15) only to get recurences of their injuries. Some of those players they were considering rushing in for the NZ test but decided against it because of trying to keep the players in a good shape, travel expenses and those players who had traveled had at least had some time together. A lot of player played carrying these ****les during the S15 and that is why it only came to light later on; nor serious enough to stop playing but preparing for the RWC I feel we have the right to rest these players if we feel their not 100% (just to reitirate). People also seem to forget that NZ had about 15 1st choice players injured during the S15. If they can get the benefit of the doubt why not us?

Edit; also, it's not just our Springboks who are injured. There about a ****ton extra fringe players and others who I won't even start trying to list.

 

[Shaggy]

Well that's relative. I think SBW's and Nonu's All Black careers probably have the same time frame to go. They are both contracted till after the 2012 season.

Yep, you could be right ... my point though, was that although they are both very good players, Nonu probably has more impact of the bench than SBW, but with changes in form/experience etc, this could change (it might not too)

I'm sorry, but Messam is not up to International level.


Good sevens and provincial player, But I have yet to see him make an impact for the ABs.


I would have selected Bourke over him a long time ago.

The likes of Bourke, Fritz Lee etc, won't be picked for the All Blacks until they up their work rates (particularly in the tackle area) ... Graham Henry, and presumably Steve Hansen (if he gets the job after Henry), are all about work rates - also, Messam and Thomson are picked for their versatility ... both can cover all three loose forward positions. I wouldn't right off Messam just yet, but he's clearly the 5th loose forward at the moment, and is therefore, the one under the most threat of losing his spot in the squad.

Stats are one thing.
I bet Reuben Thorne had some good stats too.
I never rated him either.


In my opinion Messam is nowhere near the player that the other international loose forwards are.

Yep, well Reubin did a lot of work unseen - just because it goes unseen, doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done ... i think people got blinded by what Jerry Collins was doing with his line breaks and big hit tackles. They were both good players, with different strengths to their game. To me, it's like all of the Zac Guildford haters out there, who don't think he's any good, because he doesn't bump players off the same way hosea gear does, or have the big tackle, when in reality, his work rate is high, he defends well, his tackle count is high, and he scores tries.

... I'm not chairman of the Zac Guildford fan club by the way, in fact I wasn't a fan, but he's played well this season, so credit where credit's due.

 

[Larksea]

Tracey Nelson does a great job with the stats on that site. I have heard her doing ITM Cup commentary for RadioSport and NewstalkZB sometimes, as well have giving running stats comments.

yeah it looks ok, one small issue I see is that late in the game there was a ruck where messam Hit the ball up and placed it straight back behind him and Thompson dived over the top of him. The NZ comentary team called that "not releasing" by Messam but he placed the ball back perfectly and no bok hands got to it. And you could clearly hear the ref say "number 8 straight in" or something like that and did the signal for that type of penalty with his hand. She obviously credited that penalty to messam as well.

So seemed like she was maybe lintening to grant nisbett rather than watching the game. He and TJ get names and calls wrong all the time.

 

[smartcooky]

Erm, I think people are forgetting we actually have legit injuries even though it does look fishy I know. I can assure everyone that the Stormers players all are carrying legit injuries. Of the others I can't verify but am sure they are carrying at least ****les (sore backs etc) I've heard of; the staff and doctors have every right to have kept those players in cotton wool and be 100% and not rush them back (like the Cheetahs did with Brusow in the S15) only to get recurences of their injuries. Some of those players they were considering rushing in for the NZ test but decided against it because of trying to keep the players in a good shape, travel expenses and those players who had traveled had at least had some time together. A lot of player played carrying these ****les during the S15 and that is why it only came to light later on; nor serious enough to stop playing but preparing for the RWC I feel we have the right to rest these players if we feel their not 100% (just to reitirate). People also seem to forget that NZ had about 15 1st choice players injured during the S15. If they can get the benefit of the doubt why not us?

Edit; also, it's not just our Springboks who are injured. There about a ****ton extra fringe players and others who I won't even start trying to list.

According to a few of your own journalists, including Joel Stransky and Mark Keohane (who owns/runs keo.co.za), the 21 so-called injured players have been at Rustenberg "training the house down" at a secret location with not a sign of any injuries.

IMO its all bullshit. There might be one or two (Brussow, Juan Smith and maybe a couple of others) but twenty one players all carrying injuries so serious that they cannot play, yet can train their arses off? Sorry, I don't buy it!!

To quote Sir Giles Lynchwood... "I am not so green as I am cabbage looking!"

 

[Larksea]

the whole injured players thing is a crock of bulldust. Dont even try to Justify it.

The IRB know it to but they made the decision not to question the medical evedence - there may be something behind that too, who knows.

Add to that the fact that there wasn't even a South african team in the super15 final so thier players already got an extra week rest and protection from injury.

South Africa has done exactly the same thing it did in 2007. Mostly I think because their Coach wouldn't know what an origional idea was if it dribbled out his ear. Only change is they had to do a little dance to try and make it look legal this time.

Sure there may be as many as 5 players Max with genuine injuries that would keep them from taking the field.

But 23 players? That's playing the rest of the rugby world for fools and devaluing the game.

 

[beerholder]

Why shouldn't he have a camp for players for the world cup? All other nations, bar those in the Tri-Nations are all in world cup camps.

Because people payed money to see a good tournament, TV corporations from around the world payed good money for the licenses, and bookies are playing a lot of money around....

But what's inconceivable is that their best players lost the opportunity to play against the top 2 squads in the world. What training is better than that???

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Look, like I said people are making assumptions. There is a HUGE difference between training and test rugby after travel. I know for a fact ALL the Stormers players are booked off and players such as Fourie du Preez, Bakkies Botha, Juan Smith, Heinrich Brussow, CJ van der Linde and Bismarck du Plessis had just about half to none gametime in the S15 and would have been in desperate need of time on the playing field like in the 3N IF THEY WERE FIT ENOUGH.

Lets look at the factors which i wouldn't deem to call evidence;

Springboks are resting 100% fit players;
- our coach is an idiot
- the timing seems suspicious
- the absolutely dependable Mark Keohane says so
- we rested players in 2007

Springboks are not right for test rugby because of injuries to varying degrees picked up durign teh S15
- the doctors say so
- the players I've talked to say so (1 at least would've told me if it were bullshit)
- SANZAR investigated and dropped it
- we all saw and know 12 of these players got their injuries on field and came off because of them
- I would propose that it is not inconceivable that players pick up inries during training or play some Super rugby carrying concerns
- 2007 was a completely different situation with 3 extra 'warm-up' games
- a lot of the players rested would have done well to have a few games under the belt BECAUSE OF LACK OF GAMETIME
- in 2007 we simply said; we're resting players much like NZ has announced they were resting a couple for last weekend

I'd say there's enough to afford a more than resonable doubt but I guess most people on here don't know the meaning of the word. I at least feel the doctiors and staff have efvery right to cotton-wool players coming back from injury if they feel the need. We should remember that this is their carreer and jupridising it by rushing them back or having them play carrying things such as constant backpain and tweeked groin muscles etc is recckless. Do you know the meaning of the word paranoia?

You're all John O'Neil. Yes. I. Said. That.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

LOL, my English went to sh*t in that post.

 

[TRF_heineken]

A secret location in Rustenburg?? really?? are there so many secret locations in that shitty part of our country??? i will bet all my TRF vCash they're most probably at the High Performance centre which was specially built for the england football squad during last year's world cup here in SA.

 

[madflyhalf]

Those 21 players are all overcooked, tired and maybe slightly injuried.

The problem it's not resting players, the problem is a coach that failed to build depth in some position, keeping on playing the same 15 or 22 men for the last 2 years, match after match, without any rest (Morné Steyn, Matfield, John Smit...)!
Now maybe he realized that and he can't go into a Tri-Nations series with the first team because he subsequently wouldn't be able to go to the RWC!


He sunk his own country!

The man who's coming after PDV will have a disastrous squad, a team to rebuild from 1 to 22 with talented but unexperienced young guys wasted by PDV, and this man surely will come under fire for the first 2 years at least!

 

[JW.]

A secret location in Rustenburg?? really?? are there so many secret locations in that shitty part of our country??? i will bet all my TRF vCash they're most probably at the High Performance centre which was specially built for the england football squad during last year's world cup here in SA.

That isn't going to do them much good now is it!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Those 21 players are all overcooked, tired and maybe slightly injuried.

The problem it's not resting players, the problem is a coach that failed to build depth in some position, keeping on playing the same 15 or 22 men for the last 2 years, match after match, without any rest (Morné Steyn, Matfield, John Smit...)!
Now maybe he realized that and he can't go into a Tri-Nations series with the first team because he subsequently wouldn't be able to go to the RWC!


He sunk his own country!

The man who's coming after PDV will have a disastrous squad, a team to rebuild from 1 to 22 with talented but unexperienced young guys wasted by PDV, and this man surely will come under fire for the first 2 years at least!

I don't think he (God, please let it be either Allister Coetzee or Heynecke Meyer!) will be in that bad of a position TBH;

Post RWC Springbok squad

1 Tendai Mtawarira / Coenie Oosthuizen
2 Bismarck du Plessis / Adriaan Strauss / Chiliboy Ralepele
3 Jannie du Plessis / CJ van der Linde
4 Flip van der Merwe
5 Andries Bekker
6 Heinrich Brussow
7 Schalk Burger / Willem Alberts / Juan Smith
8 Pierre Spies
9 Francois Hougaard / Ruan Pienaar
10 Patrick Lambie / Morne Steyn / Butch James
11 Gio Aplon / Lwazi Mvovo / Bjorn Basson
12 Jean de Villiers / Juan de Jongh
13 Jaque Fourie
14 JP Pietersen
15 Zane Kirschner

Not saying I'd take all of 'em but there should be more than enough to create an experienced backbone and then bring in guys like Duane Vermeulen, Coenie Oosthuizen and Riaan Viljoen/Louis Ludik who havn't had a go at test rugby yet.

 

[Rhyer]

keeping on playing the same 15 or 22 men for the last 2 years, match after match, without any rest (Morné Steyn, Matfield, John Smit...)!

Brian O'Driscoll, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls, Stephen Jones, Keven Mealamu, Quade Cooper, James O'Connor, David Pocock, Will Genia, Kurtley Beale, William Servat, Lionel Nallet, Imanol Harinordoquy, Vincent Clerc, Richie Gray, John Barclay, Kelly Brown, James Horwill. Just to name a few. Don't play that bullshit as every country does it and they man up and play. Try playing in Europe where you have 30+ club games a season.