Tri Nations: All Blacks - Springboks @ Westpac Stadium (30-07-2011, 07:35 GMT)

[JW.]

Sonny Bill is 4 years younger than Nonu who is 29, could be his last WC? But I'd stick with having Nonu and Smith for the WC, it's to late to make a new centre paring really now anyway.

 

[nickdnz]

Sonny Bill is 4 years younger than Nonu who is 29, could be his last WC? But I'd stick with having Nonu and Smith for the WC, it's to late to make a new centre paring really now anyway.

Well, it's not so much that SBW isn't young enough to make the next RWC. He is. It's more the fact that he doesn't want to get tied down to one team for too long, despite the success. Realistically, I'd be very suprised to see him stay after the 2012 season. He already has said he didn't think he'd have resigned after the RWC if he didn't feel like he owed it to the fans.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Well, it's not so much that SBW isn't young enough to make the next RWC. He is. It's more the fact that he doesn't want to get tied down to one team for too long, despite the success. Realistically, I'd be very suprised to see him stay after the 2012 season. He already has said he didn't think he'd have resigned after the RWC if he didn't feel like he owed it to the fans.

Now c'mon Nick he did say he owed the All Blacks coaching staff, as well as Crusaders boss Todd Blackadder and this is why he is going to resign.

 

[Rhyer]

SBW won't stick around, he is about the money, who signs 1 year contracts? Quade Cooper and SBW both have the same agent and I think he is just trying to build up a lot of hype around these two and then get them both into the same Rugby League club for quite a big sum.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

SBW will go to the Rabbitohs when his NRL ban runs out, I reckon

 

[Rhyer]

When does it run out?

 

[Gavin]

2013 I think

 

[JW.]

I'd think there's more money involved in Rugby Union? Be nice to see SBW stick around he has brought more attention to Rugby during his time at the Crusaders. And could make a big impact on international rugby.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Depends - Russell Crow has deep pockets, apparently - it'll be NRL or Top14 that he'll go to, I think

 

[Larksea]

Depends - Russell Crow has deep pockets, apparently - it'll be NRL or Top14 that he'll go to, I think

Doesn't really matter how much money he's got. I doubt Sonny bill will get enough from Souths while they have Greg Inglis on their books, because the celery cap is the limiting factor.

SBW has more potential to make money in Rugby because of the celery cap in the NRL. Shame he will still be in rugby next year isn't the rugby league world cup next year? It would have been really something if he was in the RWC this year and the league world cup the next.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Doesn't really matter how much money he's got. I doubt Sonny bill will get enough from Souths while they have Greg Inglis on their books, because the celery cap is the limiting factor.

SBW has more potential to make money in Rugby because of the celery cap in the NRL. Shame he will still be in rugby next year isn't the rugby league world cup next year? It would have been really something if he was in the RWC this year and the league world cup the next.

:lol:

 

[Sam Owen]

Also Sam Owen he wouldn't have stopped Smit that is one of Smit specialties remember the 1rst test in the 09 Lions. He powered past Croft a much better defender.

It was the angle at which he was running to brushed aside Carter and Nonu had to try and tackle him from the side, nobody would've stopped him.

So thats it, 5 metres out just tap the ball and give it to John Smit because hes....unstoppable???...it must be a try every time with judgements like 'nobody wouldve stopped him'. All Blacks would laugh at that and say something like 'nah we just needed to come up, he took us by suprise when we were caught napping'.

Ive seen John Smit stopped many times before. To be fair the Lions were dismal that year too losing all 3 tests (I think).

No one is saying John Smit is an unstoppable force, however no one in Nonu's position would have defended that. Daniel Carter was the player on the inside of Smit, with multiple dummy runners on the inside (covered by Ben Franks) and on the outside (covered by Nonu). Now with only way in which Nonu could have defended that would be if his positional play was wrong. You are meant to trust your inside man. I'm not saying Nonu's defense if perfect, but like usual your opinion of Sonny Bill's defense is inflated. He didn't make a tackle all game, despite playing in the most hit channel of defense.

As for the whole "sholder tackle" thing, people are just plain wrong about that. They must look at the odd youtube video watching SBW do the occasional sholder charge but realistically he makes very few, if any big hits in a game. He's not a bad defender, but I'd say he is a very tame one. One of his best assets of late has actually been his work in the ruck after a tackle. He's not a Conrad Smith level defender, but it's not an obvious weakness either.

As mentioned before, people think SBW is a lot like Ma'a Nonu in terms of his power. He's not. He hits the line hard enough to break the advantage line, get an arm free and look for the offload. Which is good, but he's not a hard line breaker, or a hard defender. He's a talented player, but he certainly is judged far too much on his size and league reputation. Conrad Smith actually breaks far more tackles and breaks the line far more often than Sonny Bill Williams, certainly at All Black level at least.

Wow, its kind of straight down the middle from you nick. I think you've taken a liking to SBW a lil bit. I agree with most of that, still think Sonny or many other 12s couldve stopped Smit. Word 'unstoppable' means just that, he couldve been stopped thats my arguement plain and simple.

 

[Darwin]

Aye, he is a good defender, stops all opponents before him.

When he uses his shoulder, which is quite often

What are peoples thoughts on Mvovo and Juan de Jongh in this game? I thought the former got caught out of position a few times in defence, whilst the latter seems to be taking awfully long to improve his physicallity, which showed in this game, yeah I know he is facing pretty strong opponents, but he is as thin as a stick, and a little bit more muscle in certain periods in this match could have gotten the Boks a few more line breaks and more points scored, as well as fewer conceded. Imo, he seriously needs a gym monkey as a roomate.

Mvovo got limited chances on attack, and struggled on defense (as he did v Australia). Though he looks dangerous when he gets the ball in space, because of the way the Boks use their wings I can't see him making the final RWC squad. I thought de Jongh looked ok; I've always thought he is better suited to 13 rather than 12, as he seems to need a bit of space to move. It certainly wouldn't hurt if he bulked up a bit (as long as it didn't affect his speed), but he does defend pretty well for a slight guy. I think he is much more effective when paired with a more powerful running option in the midfield too (de Villiers or Fourie). He's certainly a better option than Olivier!

 

[Siva Tau]

I have to say SBW looked uncertain at times and on that score alone I cant see him in a AB's top 22. That isnt a bad thing as its akin to a Brazilian soccer player who plays internationals and is left out of a final squad. The standard is very high. He is definitely not a 13, that is clear and it seems Nonu and Carter maybe preferences at 12.

This week will be interesting.

 

[JW.]

He had to play at 2nd centre for most of his game a position he doesn't know and can't play. So not suprising he looked lost, but I do agree that he isn't going to be in the starting 22. He can only play one position and it looks like it's going to be Nonu and Smith starting.

 

[FlukeArtist]

How did this become about SBW, and 1 try by Smit???!!

Anyways....

I wonder what will happen in the re-match in SA... I womder how many of the "injured 21" will make remarkable returns to the field for that game?
My guess is we will see a full strength Bok side in that game (or at the very most- 1-2 players off full strength).

 

[Larksea]

My thoughts on the game. Overall I was pretty happy. I thought the AB's game the boks a much harder spanking than the Aussies did last week. Yes it's a 2nd string bok side but there are also a number of players in this bok team that will be in the full strength team plus a bunch of guys who are the form players in South Africa. This was also not a full strength All Blacks side with many key players out injured/rested like the whole front row: Mealamu, O Franks, Woodcock plus Brad Thorn, Kieran Read and Injured guys like Dagg, Kahui, Toeava, Gear. So it's also a fair bit away from a full strength All Black side.

That Said many of the next best All Black guys stood up to be counted which is going to make final selections for the world cup 30 pretty tough. None more so than in the back three where both Sivivatu and Jane have been very strong. Of the other backup guys Thompson impressed with his speed on defence and workrate and Messam too with some powerful runs and hits late in the game. Hore was very very impressive, some great work around the breakdown and on defence will have put the heat on Mealamu to perform when he's back. Slade also did a nice job off the bench.

Was also good to see Carter & McCaw have good games. McCaw in particular hasn't been at his best recently but saturday was a good step up in performance. Carter was brilliant but the kicking game overall was pretty average. And a poor night kicking for goal was the only thing that stood between the All Blacks and a record scoreline.

Of the NZ players:

1, Crockett - He was very good, his performances will be sticking in the coaches minds giving them alot to think about. His try was impressive - he actually had a bit to do when he got the ball but he was flawless. Tough around the fringes. My only issue with him is at scrum time when the ref calls "touch" he always seems to "react" to that like he wasn't expecting it and I think it distracts from his hit. I'd tell him to expect the touch - pre meditate it and even touch early so he can then concentrate on the hit.

2, Hore's best game for the AB's in a while. He seemed to be everywhere and made some important play. Mealamu was set to be the #1 hooker this year but he now has to come back and play well straight away to keep that spot.

3, The scrum was strong so no issues there, he did looked streatched at times but then he also seemed to have a 2nd wind when he came back on for the injured Afoa and made a good impact towards the end. He becomes pretty important now Afoa is injured. I expect him to be benched and protected a bit over the few weeks while his brother comes back.

4, Ali Williams - much improved from last week, showed a lot of energy around the park. Some nice touches, sure a couple that didn't come off but overall he had a good game and was strong at lineout and restarts.

5, Sam Whitelock - Not 100% sure about Sam's game. He wasn't bad but he didn't stand out in the tackle/lineout count. I know a strength of his game is his Mobility and I did se him hit a couple of critical rucks at critical times. Like the Nonu Ruck after the carter grubber kick in the movement that ended in a try. Ok game overall but not a standout.

6, Kaino - good game though not spectacular. Some solid work and good decoy running but it would have been good to see him make some big play - either a big hit on defence or attack. Similar game to Whitelock. Good game, yes. But nothing special.

7, McCaw - Was a good step up from him. He carried the ball well as always, made a couple very good turnovers and importantly I didn't see him miss any tackles like he did against Fiji. He's on the improve and that's the important thing.

8, Thompson - his defence was impressive again, His workrate and linespeed and accuracy on defence are very strong. He does lack physical presence with ball in hand and mainly hangs out wide and tries to use his speed and agility. But he's not a #8 who is going to consistantly get over the advantage line in close which is why McCaw packed down at 8 on attacking scrums.

9, Cowan - much improved effort compared to the Fiji Game where he was pretty average. But he wasn't the only one that was only 50% against Fiji. Was quite urgent with the ball and made some good decisions.

10, Carter - pretty good overall, had the boks defence grasping at Air at times with a very attacking mindset looking for the space no matter where it was. not a great day kicking for goal though - was a lot of talk about the conditions but the ball didn't seem to drift too much.

11, Guildford - maybe his best All Black test match. Two very good tries and some great work around the field. I dont understand some of the negative talk towards him and talk of him not being fit for test rugby. Bullcrap IMO he's like 22 years old and have every trick in the book. Makes some critical tackles and I even saw him clean out well and a couple of important rucks. He showed very good speed and a massive ticker as allways.

12, Nonu - showed some of the killer instinct and high energy play which is really the key ingredient he brings. Mostly looked after but the bok defence but still proved to be a real handful for them.

13, Conrad - Solid effort. Some good signs from conrad - even though he hasn't had much rugby this year I think he should still be able to produce the goods for the All Blacks when needed, Aussie will be a bigger test for him, bok backs weren't much of a threat.

14, Jane - Very good effort from jane. IMO he is a much better right winger than a fullback and he's so good with the ball in that right hand of his. What made him so important to the AB's in 2009 was his attacking game which is a different threat to what others like Nonu or Carter bring. Gives the defence smething else to think about. Great to see that back again and if it continues he will secure that world cup spot and NZ will be better for it.

15, Mils - He was very good, showing once again that super form means very little and he is one of if not the best Fullback around which is no suprise to me. Got the AB's out in a couple of pressure situations, showed good speed and power - actually looks in very good condition, couple of very good touches in attacks that resulted in trys. His experience is so very critical to the AB's. A massive part of his game was how he linked with both Guildford and Jane.

Flynn & Hoeata: didn't really get the gametime to make an impact though neither made any mistakes which is good.
Afoa: Only got 10min before fracturng his Jaw with some very bad tackle technique. Hope he's back soon - really need to see him get some good gametime before the WC starts.
Messam: Was very strong in the last quater proved a handful for the defence when he had the ball, made up for a quiet game against Fiji. Looks in good shape.
Weepu: I think Weepu is looking very good, a couple of times he showed very good speed and made one critical cover tackle. Didn't up the attacking tempo as much as he has in the past but signs are good.
Slade: Slotted in pretty well, tested the line strongly once and profited from a great backline move to score.
Sonny Bill: I thought he was better than people are giving him credit for. He hit the line strong as always and looked pretty good on defence even though he wasn't credited. Couple of nice little passes, one of which set off a movement that ended in a try. If anything if you are going to use Nonu and SBW in a game then Nonu would be best off the bench. just great to have so much tallent in mid field really with 4 world class options.

Bring on Aussie at Eden park. I think outside world cup finals this coming weekends game against the wallabies is going to be the biggest game of the year.

For the AB's a lot will depend on how the likes of Read, Thorn, Mealamu and Owen Franks slot back into the starting 15 but I'm sure those guys will be pretty keen to prove themselves after a rest and some good performances by others in the squad.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How did this become about SBW, and 1 try by Smit???!!

Anyways....

I wonder what will happen in the re-match in SA... I womder how many of the "injured 21" will make remarkable returns to the field for that game?
My guess is we will see a full strength Bok side in that game (or at the very most- 1-2 players off full strength).

I thought the whole point of them not touring was to have them fit for the home games

 

[donmcdazzle]

Messam really wasn't that good Larksea, he wasn't bad either but I would've given him a pass mark no more. I don't think he made an impact of any note. Thomson definitely outplayed him (albeit he was on the park longer). Thomson was everywhere in attack and defence.

 

[Larksea]

Messam really wasn't that good Larksea, he wasn't bad either but I would've given him a pass mark no more. I don't think he made an impact of any note. Thomson definitely outplayed him (albeit he was on the park longer). Thomson was everywhere in attack and defence.

heck all I said was "Messam: Was very strong in the last quater proved a handful for the defence when he had the ball, made up for a quiet game against Fiji. Looks in good shape."

Hardly a Glowing report.

no he didn't bust the game open but he had a lot of carries and was involved a lot for the time he was on and got over the advantage line pretty much every single time bar one. Did make a few big tackles one resulted in a turnover (where crockett stripped the ball off the player as Messam Drove him back after the hit). I would be interested in seeing the game stats if someone has a link but at a guess I'd say Messam may have done more or at least close to hitups & meters in his ~25min on the field than Kaino did in ~55min. It sure seemed like Messam's name came up a heck of a lot in that last quater and he did at least get the attention of the commentary though that doesn't always mean much.

Thompson was good, his workrate and accuracy were very good but what did he actually do? Alot of tackles yes one in particular was good but didn't amount to much for the AB's. He got his hands on the ball to run a few times but I don't remember them amounting to much. Add to the fact that he played #8 on defence and #7 on attack which kind of protected him from the most important role in both positions (which is distributing the ball from attacking scrums and 7 from a defencive scrum is critical).

I dont want to undervalue Thompsons Role because he did seem to make a lot of tackles and not miss any. And every team needs guys like that. But he isn't much of a threat as a ball carrier and is still prone to giving away the odd penalty he shouldn't.

IMO Thompson, Kaino and Messam are quite different players in terms of their strengths. I dont think any of them have been used totally correctly in the two games so far but they have all shown some promise. And overall the 4 have worked well together in the last couple of games. One example of what I mean is Messam with pick and go. He was top player in the super15 for pick and go by a big margin yet he hasn't been used by the AB's for pick and go at all really.

Will be good to see a rested Read back on deck though and add his tallent to the squad.