Springboks vs Wallabies, July 24th 2010, Third Tri Nations Test

[TRF_Cymro]

Springboks vs Wallabies Tri Nations and Mandela Trophy Test at Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane on Saturday 24 July, 8.00pm kick off (AEST) 10:30am (BST)

The Springbok team is:

15 Zane Kirchner ( Bulls) - 9 caps
14 Gio Aplon ( Stormers) - 6 caps
13 Jaque Fourie ( Stormers) - 59 caps
12 Wynand Oliver ( Bulls) - 31 caps
11 Bryan Habana ( Stormers) - 62 caps
10 Morne Steyn ( Bulls) - 17 caps
9 Ruan Pienaar (The Sharks) - 42 caps
8 Pierre Spies ( Bulls) - 33 caps
7 Ryan Kankowski (The Sharks) - 14 caps
6 Schalk Burger ( Stormers) - 59 caps
5 Victor Matfield ( Bulls) - 97 caps
4 Danie Rossouw ( Bulls) - 50 caps
3 BJ Botha (Ulster) - 24 caps
2 John Smit (The Sharks, captain) - 98 caps
1 Gurthro Steenkamp ( Bulls) - 27 caps

Reserves:

16 Chiliboy Ralepelle ( Bulls) - 14 caps
17 CJ van der Linde ( Cheetahs) - 61 caps
18 Flip van der Merwe ( Bulls) - 2 caps
19 Dewald Potgieter ( Bulls) - 5 caps
20 Francois Hougaard ( Bulls) - 1 cap
21 Butch James (Bath) - 39 caps
22 Juan de Jongh ( Stormers) - 4 caps

Wallabies:

15. Adam Ashley Cooper (Brumbies)
14. James O'Connor (Western Force)
13. Rob Horne (NSW Waratahs)
12. Matt Giteau (Brumbies)
11. Drew Mitchell (NSW Waratahs)
10. Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds)
9. Will Genia (Queensland Reds)
8. Richard Brown (Western Force)
7. David Pocock (Western Force)
6. Rocky Elsom (Brumbies, captain)
5. Nathan Sharpe (Western Force)
4. Dean Mumm (NSW Waratahs)
3. Salesi Ma'afu (Brumbies)
2. Saia Fainga (Queensland Reds)
1. Benn Robinson (NSW Waratahs)

Reserves:

16. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
17. James Slipper (Queensland Reds)
18. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
19. Matt Hodgson (Western Force)
20. Luke Burgess (NSW Waratahs)
21. Berrick Barnes (NSW Waratahs)
22. Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs)

 

[Jer1cho]

I don't really care tbh. I'm over our coaching staff, with their mind-boggling selections and big mouths. I'm also over the refereeing, as well as our players stupidity in discipline. If we win, i will watch a replay. I'm not getting another weekend ruined by an unmotivated team.

 

[Amobokoboko]

I will watch the game. Curious ti see if the Aussies can keep the form they showed in the S14

 

[Gavin]

I don't really care tbh. I'm over our coaching staff, with their mind-boggling selections and big mouths. I'm also over the refereeing, as well as our players stupidity in discipline. If we win, i will watch a replay. I'm not getting another weekend ruined by an unmotivated team.

What South African team would you rather see Jer1cho?

 

[nickdnz]

Australia's bench makes me laugh.

Should be an alright game, I'd imagine the Springboks will take this one, although I think PdV's attempt in having a fast loose trio will blow back on him. Kankowski is a poor ball winner, and I think South Africa will struggle with retention.

Australia's selection of Rob Horne as starting centre suprised me.

 

[Wally]

Uncomfortable looking Australian side.

 

[Gavin]

Australia's bench makes me laugh.

Why?

 

[Jer1cho]

What South African team would you rather see Jer1cho?

This one:

15. Francois Steyn
14. Shadow van der Heever
13. Jaque Fourie
12. Juan de Jongh
11. Francois Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn

9. Ruan Pienaar

8. Ryan Kankowski
7. Francois Louw
6. Dewaldt Potgieter
5. Victor Matfield
4. Danie Rossouw
3. BJ Botha
2. Chilliboy Rallapelle
1. Gurthro Steenkamp

You know man, i just want to see our boys play like we know they can. How do you have a team made up of the Super 14 finalists, and now all of a sudden they are playing like this? That says A LOT about our coaching staff. There is something wrong with their 'mental states' at the moment. It's like they are frustrated, or just tired. We were lucky not to concede 50 against New Zealand. Even in our DARKEST DAYS that wouldn't happen. Now we have the most promising players ever, but somehow they are just not pitching up. It's like they don't want to play. It's fine losing a game when you play your hearts out, and just lost by an inch, but to be missing 25+ tackles every game, with numerous players who should not be there and others playing out of position, it's horrible to watch as a spectator. Obviously you lot love it, as everybody hates South Africa. For me though, it's really sad to see the guys play like the way they are.

 

[Gavin]

This one:

15. Francois Steyn
14. Shadow van der Heever
13. Jaque Fourie
12. Juan de Jongh
11. Francois Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn

9. Ruan Pienaar

8. Ryan Kankowski
7. Francois Louw
6. Dewaldt Potgieter
5. Victor Matfield
4. Danie Rossouw
3. BJ Botha
2. Chilliboy Rallapelle
1. Gurthro Steenkamp

You know man, i just want to see our boys play like we know they can. How do you have a team made up of the Super 14 finalists, and now all of a sudden they are playing like this? That says A LOT about our coaching staff. There is something wrong with their 'mental states' at the moment. It's like they are frustrated, or just tired. We were lucky not to concede 50 against New Zealand. Even in our DARKEST DAYS that wouldn't happen. Now we have the most promising players ever, but somehow they are just not pitching up. It's like they don't want to play. It's fine losing a game when you play your hearts out, and just lost by an inch, but to be missing 25+ tackles every game, with numerous players who should not be there and others playing out of position, it's horrible to watch as a spectator. Obviously you lot love it, as everybody hates South Africa. For me though, it's really sad to see the guys play like the way they are.

Must admit I do like that team, but why no Spies? I know he can be a bit one dimensional, but he always adds something to a team. Is it not right to blame the players instead of the coaches for the player's performances? I mean I have no idea how a person can play for their country and not play their hearts out, it baffles me how everyone can blame the coach if the players don't play.

 

[Jer1cho]

Is it not right to blame the players instead of the coaches for the player's performances? I mean I have no idea how a person can play for their country and not play their hearts out, it baffles me how everyone can blame the coach if the players don't play.

I thought exactly the same, until i read both Jake White, and John Smit's books. Coaches, as well as the media have a MASSIVE influence on the way the guys perform on the day. These players are like kids. You think to yourself, these players have been playing their whole lives, so what could they possibly learn that they don't already know? They know how to play, but i stand by the fact that rugby is 50% mental, and 50% physical. The Springboks of 1995 are a prime example. New Zealand were a juggernaut, and Lomu was a monster. Joel Stransky is quoted as saying:

"After we watched New Zealand demolish England, and Lomu score those 4 amazing tries, guys had their heads down, and looked at the coach (the late Kitch Christie). He didn't even hesitate, and simply said, 'we can beat them'. That single line was more important than any of them realized at that moment."

The coach needs to be the one with the belief. The one with the love, and passion for his team and players. Something however, is wrong with our team at the moment. They have lost all their belief, and just look totally lost. It's like they forgot how to play, and are starting all over again. It's just extraordinary in my view. I don't think the players are happy. Something is wrong.

 

[SelimNiai]

It was a similar story with Wales in the 6N and our inability to turn up for the first 40 minutes. We know the players can play well for 80 minutes but for some reason only performed, presumably after a rollocking from Gatland and Edwards, in the second half. If the coaches can get them fired up for the second half, why can't they psyche them up for the start of the game.

 

[Jer1cho]

One has to look no further than to what England did in the 2007 World Cup. PdV doesn't have what the players need. They need the coach to be part of the team. This team has been riding on players like Smit, Matfield and Habana. With those players aging, and not up to their best anymore, the team is following suit. PdV is nothing but a mustache and helium.

 

[Gavin]

I must read those books. The only rugby book I have read is Jonah Lomu's autobiography. In saying that the Springbok players could have a complete change of mental state and demolish the Australians and all will seem good and well. I think with the introduction of Pienaar will have a huge change on the character of the game, and the 628 caps should help.

 

[Jer1cho]

Here, is exactly the message i am trying to get across as to what's wrong. The hi-lighted lines are the big ones.

http://www.keo.co.za/2010/07/20/bok-denial-thwarting-progress/#more-65781

After two comprehensive defeats, the Boks need their coaching staff to have diagnosed the problems, analysed them and then found a way to rectify those errors to ensure they deliver a better showing at Suncorp. By De Villiers' media outbursts in the aftermath of the Wellington drubbing, and even their comprehensive loss in Auckland, that introspection hasn't happened.

De Villiers is living in a dream world and is in denial if he believes the major reason for the loss is referees being against his side. De Villiers' broken record complaint that the only reason the Boks lose is due to poor officiating is tired, and now he's confused as to why they lost to the All Blacks by 14 points and four tries to two in Wellington – not good signs if they are to reverse two away defeats and win in Brisbane.

'I don't think that will be difficult,' De Villiers said of his side's ability to be mentally up for the game. 'After we analysed the match against the All Blacks, it was a mystery to me how we lost. We really played well.'

By De Villiers's statements, that is the best, or nearing the best, the Boks can produce. If that is the case and he really believes that, the standards within the camp have dropped alarmingly.

De Villiers' unwarranted optimism is nothing new for the tour.

After Auckland he said: 'I don't think we lost so badly on Saturday, it wasn't anything we can't go back to and fix.' There was no fixing of those selection and game plan errors a week later in Wellington.

De Villiers also mentioned that the Boks were surprised at the All Blacks' physicality after the opening Test, which is a huge admission to make and says a lot about the arrogance and ignorance ahead of the biggest match of the year.

All of these statements point to the coach not willing to take blame for the problems, or more disconcerting is that he doesn't know what the problems are. De Villiers also had a little dig at his players on Monday.

'The one thing you want to see from your players is that they do the things the coach wants them to,' he said, hinting that individuals aren't listening to instructions. This also highlights how the players and coaches are on a different wavelength – hardly the ideal situation for turning around two defeats ahead of the last match on tour.

De Villiers also said the key to winning in Brisbane is by the players 'sticking to structures'. That from the coach who didn't believe in them this time two years ago.

De Villiers' media ramblings are sending out the incorrect message to the public, but the Bok coaching staff could have provided some hope with their selections. Choosing Ryan Kankowski out of position in an unbalanced loose trio that will play together for the first time and ignoring Juan de Jongh however, are the glaring mistakes.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Wallabies lack power in the backs really all our good backs are either broken or dead

 

[SelimNiai]

Here, is exactly the message i am trying to get across as to what's wrong. The hi-lighted lines are the big ones.

http://www.keo.co.za/2010/07/20/bok-denial-thwarting-progress/#more-65781

I think he has gone all doo-lally

 

[Sam Owen]

Blaming the reff is not the answers you want to hear from your coach 2 weeks in a row. It doesnt help his team to focus on something else (i.e the ref) when he should focus on the boks.

The ref is not the one missing tackles and so on..

 

[nickdnz]

Peter de Villiers is unlike any coach I've ever seen before. He isn't totally useless as some would point out, but he has big flaws.

Positives
He does something very, very well. It's something which is taking affect right now. He is very good at taking the blame. People can bark on about he is deserves the blame, but the fact of the matter is, players have to play. A coach has to coach. You cannot pin all the pit falls in South Africa's game purely on the coaching. Players weren't tackling, players were dropping the ball and there was very few signs of genius in the play. Peter de Villiers makes stupid and annoying statements in the media, which take the pressure off the players performance and puts the pressure on himself. He plays the fool, but does so to great effect.
Negatives
He's a poor coach. He was given a world cup winning squad, with players who were winners and runner ups in the Super 14 and yet he was unable to have any creativity in his games, and an inabuility to adapt to new laws. While people tend to put him down, they do have to remember, he is the coach of the winner of the Tri Nations and British and Irish Lions tour, so he's not all bad, but a lot of the players were given to him from Jake White's time as coach. I tend to think de Villiers plays the face man, to a fairly effective coaching staff.

I think South African's need to give the idiot more time. Yes, he's a stirrer in the media, but Warren Gatland isn't much worse in that regard. The All Blacks in 2009 were in a very simular position to South Africa, like remarkably so. We won the Tri Nations in 2008, had a Grand Slam tour, and yet in 2009 the All Blacks looked like a shadow of themselfs (all be it with alot more injuries, especially in the June tests). There were questions about wether Graham Henry needed to be changed, but after a bit of faith, we're now reaping the benefits.
I think South African's need to be a bit more optimistic, Robbie Deans is the most successful Super 14 coach of all time, and one of the best coaches in the world, and yet Australia only seem to have a few players with the potential of some of the new South African talent. Come 2011, South Africa may make a big turn around like the AB's seem to be now. That being said, the Tri Nations are not even half way through! It's still anyones game!

 

[Gavin]

Wallabies lack power in the backs really all our good backs are either broken or dead

Does Horne not have power? I thought Ioane would have been back from injury.

 

[Jer1cho]

Oi Nick! Did you become a mod???