South Africa v Ireland - 6 July 2024

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You played Wales like two weeks ago, were at home and were massive betting favourites

Ireland getting a (theoretical) losing bonus points is a good result for them - all I'm saying

I feel playing Wales ATM is worse than a training run

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

No. I'm not considering the opposition or the result.

Well, that might be the problem. Opposition ain't sitting cones for your lads to practice pacing around.
And sure, they've felt pressure before. But against this RSA side, in South Africa? Not many times.

I'll concede Lowe butchered an important one, but that happens. You were unlucky here and there, that's it.

They beauty i see in (this) RSA's gameplan revolves precisely around this. Their plan is very, very straightforward and that helps players to execute. One of their strengths is their simplicity. You know what is coming, it's just a very, very difficult thing to stop. Ireland is a very different animal altogether. Your best games can be magical, but your style requires a much higher level of finesse. A lot of things can go wrong. Add a transition-of-sorts into the mix and what we see is not really much of a surprise.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Well, that might be the problem. Opposition ain't sitting cones for your lads to practice pacing around.
And sure, they've felt pressure before. But against this RSA side, in South Africa? Not many times.

I'll concede Lowe butchered an important one, but that happens. You were unlucky here and there, that's it.

They beauty i see in (this) RSA's gameplan revolves precisely around this. Their plan is very, very straightforward and that helps players to execute. One of their strengths is their simplicity. You know what is coming, it's just a very, very difficult thing to stop. Ireland is a very different animal altogether. Your best games can be magical, but your style requires a much higher level of finesse. A lot of things can go wrong. Add a transition-of-sorts into the mix and what we see is not really much of a surprise.

They run straight, they run hard, and they do it for 80 minutes. It's repeatable and simple. Everyone makes mistakes. South Africa depends on minimizing their own and putting themselves in a position to exploit their opponents.

 

[corny]

Well, that might be the problem. Opposition ain't sitting cones for your lads to practice pacing around.
And sure, they've felt pressure before. But against this RSA side, in South Africa? Not many times.

I'll concede Lowe butchered an important one, but that happens. You were unlucky here and there, that's it.

They beauty i see in (this) RSA's gameplan revolves precisely around this. Their plan is very, very straightforward and that helps players to execute. One of their strengths is their simplicity. You know what is coming, it's just a very, very difficult thing to stop. Ireland is a very different animal altogether. Your best games can be magical, but your style requires a much higher level of finesse. A lot of things can go wrong. Add a transition-of-sorts into the mix and what we see is not really much of a surprise.

It's not the first time we've played this South African team. They forced us into loads of mistakes at the set piece in the World Cup. In the Autumn international before that they caused us massive problems with their line speed and aggression in defence. They routinely catch us behind the gainline. I'm very accepting of that. This is different. Dropping the ball under no pressure, passing it to phantoms and a real lack of cohesion in phase play are new for Ireland and Leinster (the wider point i'm making and the bit you're ignoring).

I expect we'll see this again against lesser teams in the next year. No Sexton, changes to the coaching set up, key players advancing in years. Not sure what it is but they look to be on the slide for me.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

It's not the first time we've played this South African team. They forced us into loads of mistakes at the set piece in the World Cup. In the Autumn international before that they caused us massive problems with their line speed and aggression in defence. They routinely catch us behind the gainline. I'm very accepting of that. This is different. Dropping the ball under no pressure, passing it to phantoms and a real lack of cohesion in phase play are new for Ireland and Leinster (the wider point i'm making and the bit you're ignoring).

I expect we'll see this again against lesser teams in the next year. No Sexton, changes to the coaching set up, key players advancing in years. Not sure what it is but they look to be on the slide for me.

I feel like Ireland peaked n their game against the all blacks in 2021 and have been going backwards ever since.

Ahhh let the boys play, you could even argue he didn't actively hook it back - the SA clearer caused so much motion in the ruck as they hit it

Would be a flimsy argument, sure, but still

that's what it looked like to me too (although tmo may have had more angles). Gotta say my fears about the new rules for tmos and assistant refs interfering sure has rung true through this weekend - specifically that there is now a much higher chance that wrong or fifty fifty calls will get made. Eg one of four people thinking a knock back was a knock on. In a shame where there's more than a hundred things that could be called but aren't in every game, we don't need to get pedantic about the rules. Instead we should be sending the message that it's ok to get some calls wrong, just as it's ok for players ti make mistakes.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I only got to half watch the game and have caught up on bits since. Looks like a couple marginal things went against us and SA capitalised when they could. Still think we're in a good place early in a world cup cycle (not that I'm a hige believer in shaping a team based on four year stints) and probably have a chance next week if injuries aren't too costly.

Pace looked to have been a big factor as to why SA won, they have it in spades and we do not. Without Mack Hansen on the pitch I think you need to bring in Jimmy on the wing, there's no replacement for speed.

I feel like Ireland peaked n their game against the all blacks in 2021 and have been going backwards ever since.

I don't think that's close to being right to be honest. The France win this year was a better performance than that game and it wasn't the peak of Farrell's Ireland by any stretch.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

It's not the first time we've played this South African team.

Not with this (your team) nor in South Africa. It's as if you are expecting the likes of Sexton being replaced without having to pay a price for that. I don't think that is how it works.
And this game was, again, in South Africa. 1-10 record.

I don't think that's close to being right to be honest. The France win this year was a better performance than that game and it wasn't the peak of Farrell's Ireland by any stretch.

Was Dupont part of that french team?

Not saying it is the sole reason, but it kinda looks a bit odd if you chose your peak and that happens to coincide with their best player taking a sabbatical.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not with this (your team) nor in South Africa. It's as if you are expecting the likes of Sexton being replaced without having to pay a price for that. I don't think that is how it works.
And this game was, again, in South Africa. 1-10 record.



Was Dupont part of that french team?

Not saying it is the sole reason, but it kinda looks a bit odd if you chose your peak and that happens to coincide with their best player taking a sabbatical.

I said it wasn't the peak. Just a better performance than the 21 NZ game.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think for the mindset going into game 2 it's a good thing that it was just such a tight game with incredibly small margins and also the aftermath is good to (hopefully) curb any potential complacency. I've seen too many times that we fall out of the bus once the pressure is off.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You put Hansen and JGP in that team and Ireland win this game IMO, regardless who the boks play.
That being said I thought both teams looked impressive given time apart.

 

[munstermuffin]

Dan Sheehan did his ACL. Not good. Can't help think this is a result partly of long tour

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Horrible luck. Might miss a Lions tour as a result.

 

[munstermuffin]

Horrible luck. Might miss a Lions tour as a result.

I'd imagine his aim will be the Lions. Helps that Faz is coaching.
I'd imagine the season for Leinster is a write off now really. He will aim for the Lions.

Will be big ask now to keep Kelliher right for Ireland and Leinster.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd imagine his aim will be the Lions. Helps that Faz is coaching.
I'd imagine the season for Leinster is a write off now really. He will aim for the Lions.

Will be big ask now to keep Kelliher right for Ireland and Leinster.

From what I'm reading a return in March would be doing well. To regain match fitness from there, shunt Kelleher back to the bench and play well enough in knockout games to warrant selection is a steep recovery curve. Arguably one that you don't want to put a guy through returning from an ACL either considering he'd end up playing nearly a season's worth of rugby in 3.5 months if he achieves it.

 

[big ginger 8]

From what I'm reading a return in March would be doing well. To regain match fitness from there, shunt Kelleher back to the bench and play well enough in knockout games to warrant selection is a steep recovery curve. Arguably one that you don't want to put a guy through returning from an ACL either considering he'd end up playing nearly a season's worth of rugby in 3.5 months if he achieves it.

Kinsella was suggesting a time frame of 6-9 months, March would obviously be at the later end of that. Thankfully an ACL isn't the death sentence it once was.

Interesting that SA have Jaco Peyper as part of there coaching staff similarly to what Frances have done with Garces. I know we get refs into camp regularly enough but I wonder is a full-time one something we'd benefit from. Though given the standard of some Irish refs, maybe not.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Kinsella was suggesting a time frame of 6-9 months, March would obviously be at the later end of that. Thankfully an ACL isn't the death sentence it once was.

Interesting that SA have Jaco Peyper as part of there coaching staff similarly to what Frances have done with Garces. I know we get refs into camp regularly enough but I wonder is a full-time one something we'd benefit from. Though given the standard of some Irish refs, maybe not.

"Well lads, referees have a natural inclination to favour teams wearing red and I'll start my presentation on that poijt"

"Frank, please leave the room"

 

[munstermuffin]

Don't get me wrong. It is possible but it all depends on how they react. Look at RG Snyman for example. Setbacks happen and recovery is very dependent on surface too. I have no doubt everything will be done correct but I really don't see Leinster or IRFU rushing him back too. They will want him 100% perfect. That extra month if needed will be better than a reoccurence or any avoidable setbacks.

I not sure if ye follow hurling closely but Ryan Taylor of Clare is a great case study. He was out 1 year almost to the day from All Ireland last year to last Saturday. His recovery was delayed because at times pitch was too soft or too hard and they need to rehab specific times on specific surfaces. And unfortunately astro is detrimental.

I just think they will side on the cautious side. And that isn't bad like he may recover fast every individual is different. But as @big ginger 8 said it most certainly isn't the career ender of yesteryear and most actually do recover to where they were pre injury

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Don't get me wrong. It is possible but it all depends on how they react. Look at RG Snyman for example. Setbacks happen and recovery is very dependent on surface too. I have no doubt everything will be done correct but I really don't see Leinster or IRFU rushing him back too. They will want him 100% perfect. That extra month if needed will be better than a reoccurence or any avoidable setbacks.

I not sure if ye follow hurling closely but Ryan Taylor of Clare is a great case study. He was out 1 year almost to the day from All Ireland last year to last Saturday. His recovery was delayed because at times pitch was too soft or too hard and they need to rehab specific times on specific surfaces. And unfortunately astro is detrimental.

I just think they will side on the cautious side. And that isn't bad like he may recover fast every individual is different. But as @big ginger 8 said it most certainly isn't the career ender of yesteryear and most actually do recover to where they were pre injury

As a Leinster and Ireland fan I'd be delighted for him to miss the Lions tour. I'm not a fan of the Lions and think the Lions is a massive contributor to just how skewed the number of world cups won (or at least general performance / finals and semi finals appearances) differs between north and south. He's also probably our best player and definitely will be this world cup cycle if he recovers well and continues his form and trajectory, keep him safe as possible!



Let's not start doing this with refs. Paid to say what he's told.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bet Rassie needed to change his trousers when he realised he can pay an ex-referee to mouth off in the press instead of him having to do it

 

[General Melchett]

Consultant refs need to be gagged after matches and shouldn't be allowed to entertain or meet any match officials in the lead up to a match. At least Peyper is less likely to pull his hammy while working as a consultant.