South Africa vs Wales - Twickenham (22 June)

[dirty harry]

Mo'unga does and a few others do.

Anyway, the point wasn't about beating players or breaking lines from first receiver it's about keeping defences guessing and on their toes. It was one of the things that stopped Biggar from being an elite 10. Defences knew what he was doing with the ball in his hands.

De beer is to old now. Won't qualify until he's nearly in a retirement home. I also don't think he's anything that special so even if he was qualified now I wouldn't see him as anything more than a 3rd choice.

1. Biggar was top class, he wasnt a free running 10, but he was certainly top class. There are very few 10s I would have swapped him for at his best in the last 20 years...

2. Fair. Hes what 28 now qualifies at 30. He is a big step up from Costelow currently though, and despite not being that great hes the best 10 in Wales easily (usurped by Edward's and Sheedy next season hopefully).

 

[dirty harry]

How longs he got? I thought it was 5 years and he's not been in Wales that long has he.

Its 3 years, hes been here for 1.

 

[dirty harry]

You'll forgive @dirty harry he has a soft spot for slow average rugby players

*cough Adam Beard cough*

De Beer is quicker than Costelow sadly, despite not being a speed demon

 

[dullonien]

I like De Beer a lot. He does lots of stuff really well 90% of the time. But he has some real brain farts that have really cost Cardiff this season. Still the best 10 in Wales by some margin! Probably too old to worth bothering with though.

The hope is Dan Edwards will step up next season. It was his attacking play that stood out at U20 level, he has some real showreel skills, but he doesn't get much opportunity to showcase them for the Ospreys. If Ospreys continue to build a side around him though, hopefully that will come.

Anyone else wonder if Sam Davies would be a better option than Costellow atm? Seems to be a real leader in France. Second devision I know, but the quality of the ProD2 is pretty high still.

 

[Saintjay]

Laid the foundations, mate. I'm sure his leaving speech was also their main inspiration to winning the league. I heard that no name 22 year old also credited Biggar being the sole person responsible for his good form.

In all honesty i like Biggar. As far as i know he was well regarded at Saints.

 

[dullonien]

Ok ok ok I'm sick of whinging, positives out of the game:

- Grady looked better. Except for the glaring **** up for the first try he did ok defensively, and played for the team ball in hand, which is great to see.

- Bevan looked like an experienced operator. On debut I though he was fantastic, not perfect at all, but hes got a great delivery, and is cool and collected.

- Wainright is unreal that he can perform to such a high standard in such a poor team.

- I thought the pack were under powered but dealt with the scrum ok, even winning a few free kicks and pens.

- lineout went ok, especially considering personelle. Screech was actually far better than i was expecting, fair play to him!

- Defencively, what we conceded were very poor individual errors, system wise i feel like we are starting to turn a corner. It was a bit more nuanced than last few games. We still need to find people to run it properly, you cant hide players at int rugby.

- Liam William's still has something to offer, he gave us a platform when under pressure, and really helps Winnet. I genuinely fear for Winnets safety, he is so good but lacks power, pace, and agility, and gets folded in half EVERY time he touches the ball.

Firstly, I'm flabergasted that you managed a positive post, are you feeling OK? Fully agree with most as well.

Not sure about the scrum comment though. First half I thought the pack grew into it, but as soon as Assiratti went off it was a complete shambles. O'Connor is on of the worst scrummagers I've seen, completely out of his depth. Griffin has barely played for Bath, but I'd have him on the bench v Aus because he can't be worse!

 

[dirty harry]

I like De Beer a lot. He does lots of stuff really well 90% of the time. But he has some real brain farts that have really cost Cardiff this season. Still the best 10 in Wales by some margin! Probably too old to worth bothering with though.

The hope is Dan Edwards will step up next season. It was his attacking play that stood out at U20 level, he has some real showreel skills, but he doesn't get much opportunity to showcase them for the Ospreys. If Ospreys continue to build a side around him though, hopefully that will come.

Anyone else wonder if Sam Davies would be a better option than Costellow atm? Seems to be a real leader in France. Second devision I know, but the quality of the ProD2 is pretty high still.

I think hes all but eradicated that. This season has been a real learning curve, early on he had the tendency to get flustered when under pressure, and your right he cost us 2 games off the top of my head. But he progressed really quickly, and doesnt half know how to lead a backline, even with a powder puff pack. Ultimately though he is too old.

Edward's is my pick too, I thought he had shown enough to travel, especially considering Beetham has shown nothing on his wing appearance let alone at 10 lol.

I've also said for 3 seasons Ben Thomas should have converted to 10, now with De Beer being solid and Sheedy coming in it looks like hes going to be a midfield clubman at best.

For the record I would take Sam Davies over Costello any day, as flawed as he is he can kick to touch AND at goal.

 

[dirty harry]

Firstly, I'm flabergasted that you managed a positive post, are you feeling OK? Fully agree with most as well.

Not sure about the scrum comment though. First half I thought the pack grew into it, but as soon as Assiratti went off it was a complete shambles. O'Connor is on of the worst scrummagers I've seen, completely out of his depth. Griffin has barely played for Bath, but I'd have him on the bench v Aus because he can't be worse!

It's scary to think our scrum depends on Assiratti lol

You are bang on about O connor, he really struggles

 

[big ginger 8]

Its 3 years, hes been here for 1.

It used to be 3. It was changed to 5.

8.1 Subject to Regulation 8.2, a Player may only play for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team, the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the senior National Representative Sevens Team of the Union of the country with which the Player has a genuine, close, credible and established national link in which:

...
(c) the Player has completed sixty consecutive months of Residence immediately preceding the time of playing; or
...

 

[dirty harry]

It used to be 3. It was changed to 5.

8.1 Subject to Regulation 8.2, a Player may only play for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team, the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the senior National Representative Sevens Team of the Union of the country with which the Player has a genuine, close, credible and established national link in which:

...
(c) the Player has completed sixty consecutive months of Residence immediately preceding the time of playing; or
...

You're bang on, it changed 2 years ago wasnt it. I must have got it mixed with the switch also. Good catch

 

[Tooting Carmen]

What about Owen Williams? Or indeed Rhys Patchell?

 

[dirty harry]

What about Owen Williams? Or indeed Rhys Patchell?

Ones not a 10, and the other just left his super club after a bang average season and getting injured again.

 

[dullonien]

Yeah, Owen Williams had a very poor season for Ospreys, alarmingly bad in some games. Reason they had to take a punt on a rookie like Edwards.

I really like Patchell, always have, classy player (suspect tackler), but he cannot stay fit for more than a few games at a time. Looked good out in NZ initially by all accounts... for about 3 games, then misses the rest of the season through injury and gets released. Shame.

 

[dirty harry]

Yeah, Owen Williams had a very poor season for Ospreys, alarmingly bad in some games. Reason they had to take a punt on a rookie like Edwards.

I really like Patchell, always have, classy player (suspect tackler), but he cannot stay fit for more than a few games at a time. Looked good out in NZ initially by all accounts... for about 3 games, then misses the rest of the season through injury and gets released. Shame.

He was never good in NZ, he made 2 try scoring passes in his first 3 games, then the next 3/4 games he was hidden.

He was never trusted as a 10, the centre is a great goal kicker and out of hand, he was a ball playing 2nd phase type player.

I agree though, I like him too, had he stayed at Cardiff and just played 10 hed have 50 caps plus by now I reckon, back up for Biggar and taking the reigns a few years ago. But he is made of glass.