June 2012 Tours

[Thingimubob]

Wonder if they'll bring extended squads to play clubs during the mid-week? Would be pretty cool seeing a Welsh 2nd team line up against the Waratahs or someone

 

[psychic duck]

I really think the teams towards the bottom of the top 10 tier 1 Nations clique should play more of a balance between sides above and below them

for example Italy over Nick Mallett's tenure only won 8 matches in 4 years, as apart from the 6N they continuously played Australia (5 times), South Africa (4 times) and New Zealand (2 times)

I really believe that matches for teams such as Italy and Scotland against the likes of Canada and Georgia would benefit them more than playing New Zealand every year

it actually annoys me the way the 10 Nations clique play each other too much and ignore other teams

 

[Thingimubob]

I really think the teams towards the bottom of the top 10 tier 1 Nations clique should play more of a balance between sides above and below them

for example Italy over Nick Mallett's tenure only won 8 matches in 4 years, as apart from the 6N they continuously played Australia (5 times), South Africa (4 times) and New Zealand (2 times)

I really believe that matches for teams such as Italy and Scotland against the likes of Canada and Georgia would benefit them more than playing New Zealand every year

it actually annoys me the way the 10 Nations clique play each other too much and ignore other teams

Definitely have a point there, though some teams do make at least a bit of an effort to play the smaller sides. I mean in every AI since 2006 Wales have played at least one home test against a smaller nation, playing Canada twice ('06 and '08), Samoa once ('09) and Fiji once ('10). Scotland have played recent tests in Aberdeen against Canada and Samoa too, Ireland have had a few against the same opposition too I think.
That said, teams like Georgia, Japan, the US and Romania need to badly be put into the AI's and June tours rotation to help their growth.

 

[Seaton]

It's New Zealand's fault, they are hegemonic and enjoy beating us lowly teams too much to change their ways and let us play other teams.

On a serious note, I think you are right in that we don't get any benefit from playing the All Blacks so often, we have that mentality against them that prevents us from even doing the basics right, best let a generation of players past then have a shotty at them, cause to be honest all it does is hurt our game. Remember last years AIs? We had a big crowd for the Bew Zealand game, all that anticipation and then WHAM! Next week we have a pultry crowd for the Bok game.

However, many don't want to accept this, and to paraphrase a member on a Scottish forum, "The day we give up against the SH teams, and see playing developing sides like Georgia as the best alternative, is the day that Scottish rugby dies and finally achieves what it has been trying for so long."

While not so many are quite as drastic as that, there will be significant resistance, because honestly no one wants to be told they can't compete at the highest level any more. There are indeed tough times ahead.

 

[LittleGuy]

My ideal situation for Canada is for one Tier One side to visit us in June as Italy is doing this year along with a match or two vs. the States and another Tier Two opponent this year its Georgia.

The June tour for me this year is pretty good for Canada home and away vs. the USA, and Italy and Georgia visiting all four teams are around the same level in the IRB rankings, and I don't think I'm looking through rose coloured glasses in saying that Italy needs to bring a close to full strength side or risk losing that game in Toronto.

For our away November tour I'd like to see another game against a tier one team, possibly Scotland or Wales(Wales has always been great to Canadian rugby) another two games against Tier Two or very high Tier Three teams e.g. Romania, Portugal, Namibia and one game probably the opening game of the tour vs. a weaker tier three team e.g. Spain, Belgium, Germany. The Belgium game last year was a great way to start some of our lesser players and drew a big Belgian crowd, as a tier two team we need to give some of these teams a hand in their development and I think the experience for Spain and Belgium last November in playing us was a good thing.

 

[Amobokoboko]

I also prefer the situation where each teams faces three different opponents.
When will the EOYT calendar be released for 2012? Would love to see England - NZ but might go on holiday in November.

 

[Melhor Time]

Wonder if they'll bring extended squads to play clubs during the mid-week? Would be pretty cool seeing a Welsh 2nd team line up against the Waratahs or someone

Yes, it is planned. Ireland are expected to face the NZ Maori in a mid week match.

it actually annoys me the way the 10 Nations clique play each other too much and ignore other teams

That makes two of us.

I think you are right in that we don't get any benefit from playing the All Blacks so often, we have that mentality against them that prevents us from even doing the basics right, best let a generation of players past then have a shotty at them, cause to be honest all it does is hurt our game. Remember last years AIs? We had a big crowd for the Bew Zealand game, all that anticipation and then WHAM! Next week we have a pultry crowd for the Bok game.

Thats a bit of a Scottish thing though. Ireland, England, France and Wales have all been badly beaten in November Internationals in recent years only to then play the following week in front of a full house. Scotland´s problem is bandwagoning. Rugby is so poorly supported that people tend to just get behind it when the team is doing well.

 

[psychic duck]

The June tour for me this year is pretty good for Canada home and away vs. the USA, and Italy and Georgia visiting all four teams are around the same level in the IRB rankings, and I don't think I'm looking through rose coloured glasses in saying that Italy needs to bring a close to full strength side or risk losing that game in Toronto.

you're right, Italy hasn't really been the best team at playing sides lower than them (although they did better at RWC 11), they struggled against Japan recently and a bit further back against Portugal and Romania in RWC 2007

For our away November tour I'd like to see another game against a tier one team, possibly Scotland or Wales(Wales has always been great to Canadian rugby) another two games against Tier Two or very high Tier Three teams e.g. Romania, Portugal, Namibia and one game probably the opening game of the tour vs. a weaker tier three team e.g. Spain, Belgium, Germany. The Belgium game last year was a great way to start some of our lesser players and drew a big Belgian crowd, as a tier two team we need to give some of these teams a hand in their development and I think the experience for Spain and Belgium last November in playing us was a good thing.

this is a great way of thinking, a couple of matches against teams reasonably even, one slightly weaker and one slightly stronger, if only the tier 1 nations thought more like this

 

[Nielsch]

It's New Zealand's fault, they are hegemonic and enjoy beating us lowly teams too much to change their ways and let us play other teams.

On a serious note, I think you are right in that we don't get any benefit from playing the All Blacks so often, we have that mentality against them that prevents us from even doing the basics right, best let a generation of players past then have a shotty at them, cause to be honest all it does is hurt our game. Remember last years AIs? We had a big crowd for the Bew Zealand game, all that anticipation and then WHAM! Next week we have a pultry crowd for the Bok game.

However, many don't want to accept this, and to paraphrase a member on a Scottish forum, "The day we give up against the SH teams, and see playing developing sides like Georgia as the best alternative, is the day that Scottish rugby dies and finally achieves what it has been trying for so long."

While not so many are quite as drastic as that, there will be significant resistance, because honestly no one wants to be told they can't compete at the highest level any more. There are indeed tough times ahead.

Well you can play a SH nation at Murrayfield, and a tier 2 nation (Georgia or Canada for instance) on the road.

 

[Seaton]

Well you can play a SH nation at Murrayfield, and a tier 2 nation (Georgia or Canada for instance) on the road.

Indeed, this has been happening to an extent, with games against 2nd Tier teams being played on the last week of our AIs in Aberdeen. However I presume what you mean is in the opponent's country?

@ Melhor

Yeah, that's why I was saying its simply our mentality, both in terms of the players and crowd. Ever met a cup half fill Scot? If you have you should contact the authorities and have him sent to the loony bin. Very negative attitude, and the interest simply isn't there at the moment, we badly needed to make the quarters in the world cup, and a top of the pool finish wasn't out of our grasp, which will inspire even more apathetism amongst the punters.

 

[Melhor Time]

Indeed, this has been happening to an extent, with games against 2nd Tier teams being played on the last week of our AIs in Aberdeen. However I presume what you mean is in the opponent's country?

@ Melhor

Yeah, that's why I was saying its simply our mentality, both in terms of the players and crowd. Ever met a cup half fill Scot? If you have you should contact the authorities and have him sent to the loony bin. Very negative attitude, and the interest simply isn't there at the moment, we badly needed to make the quarters in the world cup, and a top of the pool finish wasn't out of our grasp, which will inspire even more apathetism amongst the punters.

I agree 100% with you. I was at the Scotland vs Argentina RWC match and was in Wellington bars for the afternoon leading up to the match. There were thousands of Scots and thousands of Pumas fans too. I was talking to one particilar Scot for about an hour and a half in a Courtenay Place Bar (I forget the name) who was extremely knowledgable about everything to do with Scottish rugby. He has a membership to Firhill, knows the Glasgow players, etc. He knew how Scotland would play. This guy was truely an expert.. A rare find.

I was interested in his views on the weakness of Edinburgh and Glasgow in the Heineken Cup and Celtic League. He thinks they need to, at all costs, hang onto Richie Gray, John Barclay, etc. These guys will do wonders for the local rugby communities. They are, also, world class performers who will ensure the quality of results is better than if they go elsewhere. I have seen rumours of a particular French club looking at Gray.

We talked also about the national side a lot. He was at the win over South Africa and the loss vs New Zealand. Like we´ve been over before, in my view, Scotland need to score tries. Although Scotland has beaten sides like Australia and South Africa the lack of tries really holds them back. Jackson over Parks has to be permanent. I told the guy, he agreed. Scotland scored no tries vs Georgia at the RWC and none vs Argentina or England. Thats why they went home early.

I do think having Scotland use Aberdeen for games vs Canada, Samoa and so on is a superb move. I also think they need to play abroad to develop the side. There are too many matches against elite sides that do result in the gamne plan Scotland utilize. I doubt Scotland´s June tests in Fiji and Samoa will be tryless games. The likes of Max Evans, Sean Lamont and John Barclay should be crossing the line. Scotland are to play in Japan also I have seen. Hopefully they can arrange matches vs Georgia and the North Americans too. This is a great way forward.

BTW a match at Hampton Park is needed. The guy I mention wants one there per year. Make it a realistically winable match and also a marketable one. Argentina loom as the ideal opponent. I´d suggest Australia as the next best. Maybe Fiji and Samoa are a bit far fetched.

 

[Seaton]

Can't disagree with anything said there, except that Jackson has got his work cut out merely getting back into Glasgow's starting XV ahead of Duncan Weir, and should 'Mini Moray' keep his form up, there is no reason that he should get dropped and he should be at least in contention for the starting berth for Scotland come the Six Nations. Possibly doesn't distribute the ball as well as Jackson, but has a fantastic boot that could allow us to vary our game. Also a top notch goal kicker, streaks ahead of Jackson IMO. Alas, Sean Lineen has other ideas and seems rather ereluctant to give the youngsters time to shine unless it is the last resort at times, which with the world cup has tended to be the case this season, and look where the team is!

The injury to Phil Godman has also been a blessing in disguise, with Greig Laidlaw and youngster Harry Leonard getting game time and proving to be better than the man they are filling in for. It hasn't been long into the season, but another talented 10 in Sam-Hidalgo Clyde (sp) off to get plenty of experience with the sevens team, I am genuinely optimistic about our options at 10 for the next few years, provided they are managed properly and given sufficient game time.

About Hampden, again there hasn't been a mass call-out from the public for a game to be there, and with it's close proximity to Edinburgh, there isn't much incentive for a game to be held there, especially as then the SRU would have to pay the Scottish Football Association oodles to use it. I don't know how much you talked about it with other Scots, but most football supporters, and especially Old Firm supporters in Scotland, have a genuine dislike for rugby, even if they have never watched it. I'd actually interested to see what their reaction would be, no doubt there would be a few bombs in the post heading Murrayfields way, but for the life of me I can't see the Old Firm faithful buying tickets, nor can I see all of the supporters who go travel to Edinburgh make the same trip to Glasgow.

It's a shame, but many problems in all Scottish sport can be traced to two football clubs and their supporters, it would be great if there could be games held there, but there are many obstacles in the way (another major one would be the prohibition of alcohol in the stadium) that just might make it not worth the effort.

 

[psychic duck]

We talked also about the national side a lot. He was at the win over South Africa and the loss vs New Zealand. Like we´ve been over before, in my view, Scotland need to score tries. Although Scotland has beaten sides like Australia and South Africa the lack of tries really holds them back. Jackson over Parks has to be permanent. I told the guy, he agreed. Scotland scored one tries vs Georgia at the RWC and none vs Argentina or England. Thats why they went home early.

Scotland didn't score any tries against Georgia

Can't disagree with anything said there, except that Jackson has got his work cut out merely getting back into Glasgow's starting XV ahead of Duncan Weir, and should 'Mini Moray' keep his form up, there is no reason that he should get dropped and he should be at least in contention for the starting berth for Scotland come the Six Nations. Possibly doesn't distribute the ball as well as Jackson, but has a fantastic boot that could allow us to vary our game. Also a top notch goal kicker, streaks ahead of Jackson IMO. Alas, Sean Lineen has other ideas and seems rather ereluctant to give the youngsters time to shine unless it is the last resort at times, which with the world cup has tended to be the case this season, and look where the team is!

The injury to Phil Godman has also been a blessing in disguise, with Greig Laidlaw and youngster Harry Leonard getting game time and proving to be better than the man they are filling in for. It hasn't been long into the season, but another talented 10 in Sam-Hidalgo Clyde (sp) off to get plenty of experience with the sevens team, I am genuinely optimistic about our options at 10 for the next few years, provided they are managed properly and given sufficient game time.

About Hampden, again there hasn't been a mass call-out from the public for a game to be there, and with it's close proximity to Edinburgh, there isn't much incentive for a game to be held there, especially as then the SRU would have to pay the Scottish Football Association oodles to use it. I don't know how much you talked about it with other Scots, but most football supporters, and especially Old Firm supporters in Scotland, have a genuine dislike for rugby, even if they have never watched it. I'd actually interested to see what their reaction would be, no doubt there would be a few bombs in the post heading Murrayfields way, but for the life of me I can't see the Old Firm faithful buying tickets, nor can I see all of the supporters who go travel to Edinburgh make the same trip to Glasgow.

It's a shame, but many problems in all Scottish sport can be traced to two football clubs and their supporters, it would be great if there could be games held there, but there are many obstacles in the way (another major one would be the prohibition of alcohol in the stadium) that just might make it not worth the effort.

Duncan Weir at the minute should be the starting Scottish fly half, kind of unfortunate that him and Jackson play for the same team actually

and Weir looks like Tim Bresnan as well as Moray Low

 

[white bear]

Hi guys. In Russia, there are rumors that in 2012 will play series against New Zealand Maori.
http://www.sports.ru/others/rugby/129768922.html
While negotiations with the New Zealanders are not yet known what month they will be able to come to Russia. Presumably there will be 3 games: in Krasnoyarsk, Moscow and Kazan. Moscow and Krasnoyarsk most rugby Russian cities, but the choice of Kazan I was not very clear, it would be better to choose Rostov on Don or St. Petreburg to ensure spectator interest.

 

[nickdnz]

Hi guys. In Russia, there are rumors that in 2012 will play series against New Zealand Maori.
http://www.sports.ru/others/rugby/129768922.html
While negotiations with the New Zealanders are not yet known what month they will be able to come to Russia. Presumably there will be 3 games: in Krasnoyarsk, Moscow and Kazan. Moscow and Krasnoyarsk most rugby Russian cities, but the choice of Kazan I was not very clear, it would be better to choose Rostov on Don or St. Petreburg to ensure spectator interest.

Good to hear. Really good. I admit the article wasn't too helpful to me, as my Russian is somewhat lacking, but will be pleased if it gets the go-ahead.

 

[Seaton]

For those without translating software...

In 2012, Team New Zealand Maori may hold tour in Russia

A second team of New Zealand - Maori - can hold international test matches in 2012 against Russia. Negotiations have not yet finished, but probably by still come to an agreement.

"Home World Cup has given us an excellent opportunity to meet some influential foreign representatives. And many have expressed interest in New Zealand.

Thus, a team of Maori, which this year celebrated 100 anniversary of his first official match, can in 2012 to play with members of the World Cup, the debutant including Russia.

We are very pleased that there is such a great interest in our rugby, but it is too early to say that the tour in Russia just held. Have yet to solve many technical questions - including possible "- quoted Neil Sorensen, general manager of the Union of New Zealand rugby, NZ Herald.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I guess they'll have to figure out a special calendar, given that SH temas tour Europe in November... is Russian November weather suitable for rugby?

 

[white bear]

In November? And in the summer or spring,it is impossible?In November,80% of Russian territory can only be played in the "winter rugby."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L92z74H9pco
And to carry out such top games in Sochi ridiculous.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

In June, NH teams tour the SH and in November is the other way round... If it is on a different date, players will usually be commited to their clubs/provinces.

 

[white bear]

In June, NH teams tour the SH and in November is the other way round... If it is on a different date, players will usually be commited to their clubs/provinces.

Sorry, my English is bad. I do not understand when Maori cancome to Russia? In June or November?