Premiership player exodus

[Jimbo]

Is it just me or does there seem to be a unusually high amount of players going to be playing outside of the premiership, just looked at a global list of transfers and there are a lot leaving many to France, this is outside of the clubs that folded, are the salaries significantly better to uproot one's life, or are players growing more concerned about the stability of the premiership clubs finances.

 

[Which Tyler]

A] I'd need to see some stat.s
B] Prem clubs are getting used to fewer matches and smaller salary cap resulting in smaller squads

 

[Jimbo]

A] I'd need to see some stat.s
B] Prem clubs are getting used to fewer matches and smaller salary cap resulting in smaller squads

Makes sense I was just scrolling through a players in and out per club and it appeared rather high, I genuinely have a brief look this time of year and just seems higher than usual, as you say less games may have an impact some not getting England recognition may also be a factor, I was going off the site below which may or may not be accurate https://www.straightuphydro.co.uk/

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Does feel like the floodgates have opened a bit - it used to be very rare for players to go to France, like one or two a season at most (Shaw, Wilko, Sheridan etc)

There's definitely a lot more money in France and Japan than the Prem
I think French clubs are more open to English players these days. All Blacks/Springboks/Wallabies that you'd usually expect to go to France on big bucks are opting for Japan instead meaning the Prem is getting scouted more than before (i.e. if de Jager, Mostert and PSDT were on the market would Ribbans be getting the big money move?)
Season after a RWC is the best time to go if you still have international ambitions, too

Chiefs, I don't think, would've lost as many players if the salary cap wasn't reduced (which is why they're the only non billionaire backed club that's pushing for it to go back up). They ran into an unfortunate situation where a lot of their biggest earners were out of contract at the same time, so they couldn't afford to offer them all competitive deals

I wonder if the national side being in such a slump ATM plays a part too. Obviously players will want to be playing for their country regardless but it's easier to walk away if you're being ripped apart by every two bit journo with a twitter account all season long

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hmm how many starters have left for France that are not Exeter players

Joseph, Marchant, Ribbans?

Exeter and Bristol are both teams that mass re-signed pre covid to get the 25% off the cap space, both kinda paying for it now.

Outside I don't think it's been too bad.
Irish, Wasps and Worcester have flooded the market and it's become easier to sign players which has meant more movement

 

[Which Tyler]

For Exeter, define "unfortunate situation"
They offered their stars 3 year contracts when 25% of the salary would be put outside the cap, 3 years ago.
Fo me, it's a situation of their own making, that they've known was coming for 3 years.


Joseph isn't a starter for Bath anymore, and was re-signed on an inflated salary (given that his international days were over) in a dick-measuring contest between the previous DoR and a temporary CEO

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For Exeter, define "unfortunate situation"

Short-sighted, then

I meant that the exodus wasn't necessarily that they had a bunch of players wanting to move abroad more that they had a bunch of players they could no longer afford to keep because of their contract scheduling (possibly due to COVID renegotiations?)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Joseph, Marchant, Ribbans?

Even from them you can remove Ribbans as he was a pro player in his home country before moving to England, so not really the same as someone like Joseph (who falls into the category of highly capped recent international being offered a big money contract abroad)

Marchant leaving in his prime is the outlier, but then he's had a taste of playing abroad already with his stint in NZ

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I thought ribbans was the outlier from that group. JJ is past his prime so I get it. Marchant was told no by Eddie jones so i get it. Ribbans was a pure money move so he knows he's stopping his England caps after the WC.

After the WC I wonder how many more will do the big money move while they still have top value.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought ribbans was the outlier from that group. JJ is past his prime so I get it. Marchant was told no by Eddie jones so i get it. Ribbans was a pure money move so he knows he's stopping his England caps after the WC.

I meant I don't consider him as part of the group at all - his circumstances are completely different to England-produced players
Like how I wouldn't include Wili Heinz in the list of England players moving abroad last year

 

[Which Tyler]

TBH, all 3 of that group are outliers, for different reasons.

However, the group was called "Prem starters who are going to France" - in which case JJ is the relevant outlier, as he wasn't a Prem starter*.

Keeping my Bath hat on; it was more like when Abendanon moved to France, he spent a season at Bath playing second fiddle to his younger replacement.
Obvious differences in the number of caps for JJ vs Bendy (and age, as Bendy was still at his peak), but neither were current internationals when they left.


* Just had a look, he started 9 matches last season, 4 of them before Lawrence arrived, and another 4 whilst Lawrence was away with England, and once alongside Lawrence when Redpath was away and Ojomoh had a knock. As far as I'm away, JJ hasn't been injured this year.

 

[stus768]

TBH, all 3 of that group are outliers, for different reasons.

However, the group was called "Prem starters who are going to France" - in which case JJ is the relevant outlier, as he wasn't a Prem starter*.

Keeping my Bath hat on; it was more like when Abendanon moved to France, he spent a season at Bath playing second fiddle to his younger replacement.
Obvious differences in the number of caps for JJ vs Bendy (and age, as Bendy was still at his peak), but neither were current internationals when they left.


* Just had a look, he started 9 matches last season, 4 of them before Lawrence arrived, and another 4 whilst Lawrence was away with England, and once alongside Lawrence when Redpath was away and Ojomoh had a knock. As far as I'm away, JJ hasn't been injured this year.

Only 9?!? He's dropped massively very quickly.

 

[McTallshort]

Remember when the premiership fancied itself as the big boy?

 

[Which Tyler]

Only 9?!? He's dropped massively very quickly.

Yup, that's the arrival of Ollie Lawrence.
It's what I thought wasn't being realised.

Unlike the situation when Watson took over the 15 shirt from Bendy, neither Lawrence nor Joseph really play anywhere other than 13 (well, OL can play 12, but he'd be 3rd choice there at club).

Remember when the premiership fancied itself as the big boy?

When we only lost a few players to France, with basically none coming the other way?
Or when our big club was cheating?
I don't think we were ever the big boy, just big enough to look after ourselves against all but the top 2-3 in France and all but the top 1 in Ireland; despite smaller pockets; and maybe grab the odd win against the big boys here and there.

I'd say we're now looking at looking after ourselves against all but the top 4-5 in France and all but the top 1-2 in Ireland, and any wins against the big boys would be real shocks.