England 2023/24

[Vieux Talonneur]

We don't typically seem to be able to hold on to coaches who aren't English.

I suspect that it's easier to keep the Englishmen because there is a kind of loyalty/pride attached to representing your country.

Perhaps if we had secured Forshaw and Blackett they would still be in post.

An obvious risk if home is another country and you've perhaps left your family behind.

Exception, Jones E.

Names have come and gone from home and overseas. A few are missed, but too many simply didn't have the right experience…..Ryles, Siebold, Amor, Gleeson, Sinfield etc……

The hires of the likes of Mitchell, F Jones, and Walters suggests that the England jobs still have a pull. The problem seems to be what they find when they get there which for me is 100% down to the culture set the by the head coaches.

 

[Jimbo]

It does feel like we are constantly reinventing the wheel...

What's actually being reinvented here though, I keep hearing about this revolutionary defence, rush D is pretty damn common and has been for a while, I get that there are subtle nuances to some of it but for the most part there's no real invention, just comes across as excuses and buying time for results to come at times.

 

[BPM]

An obvious risk if home is another country and you've perhaps left your family behind.

Exception, Jones E.

Names have come and gone from home and overseas. A few are missed, but too many simply didn't have the right experience…..Ryles, Siebold, Amor, Gleeson, Sinfield etc……

The hires of the likes of Mitchell, F Jones, and Walters suggests that the England jobs still have a pull. The problem seems to be what they find when they get there which for me is 100% down to the culture set the by the head coaches.

This is the biggest thing for me. Amor and Gleeson were not at the level required. Same goes for Siebold.

Arguably, Sinfield and Wigglesworth are not experienced enough for the level of responsibility they were given.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

What's actually being reinvented here though, I keep hearing about this revolutionary defence, rush D is pretty damn common and has been for a while, I get that there are subtle nuances to some of it but for the most part there's no real invention, just comes across as excuses and buying time for results to come at times.

Agree. Just wonder if some players don't have great rugby IQ and struggled too much.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What's actually being reinvented here though, I keep hearing about this revolutionary defence, rush D is pretty damn common and has been for a while, I get that there are subtle nuances to some of it but for the most part there's no real invention, just comes across as excuses and buying time for results to come at times.

The principles are fine but the devil's always in the detail. That, and communication styles, will differ between coaches. At this level small mistakes get exposed, and it takes a very long time for something - anything - to become properly instinctive. That's why continuity of coaching and selection matters.

And don't forget that the players spend most of their time with their clubs where they're hearing different voices and possibly using a different system entirely.

 

[Reiser99]

Yeah, the hardest part is getting everyone on the same page, knowing what to do and trusting each other. Attack can be a bit of individual brilliance to score, but conceding is almost always because the defence didn't work correctly.

 

[Saintjay]

What's actually being reinvented here though, I keep hearing about this revolutionary defence, rush D is pretty damn common and has been for a while, I get that there are subtle nuances to some of it but for the most part there's no real invention, just comes across as excuses and buying time for results to come at times.

Agreed. Goes with this whole we must get a league coach to show us how to defend and do it that way.

We've been doing that for years, if union D coaches are still watching and not caught up by now. Maybe there in the wrong job.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looks like we're buying Joe El-Abd out of his contract at Oyonnax
Yet more money gone - wonder how long he'll last?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Looks like we're buying Joe El-Abd out of his contract at Oyonnax

A union coach coaching union defence? It'll never catch on.

Yet more money gone - wonder how long he'll last?

The earliest of:

Someone realising that it's actually quite a big jump from French D2 to the pinnacle of the international game.

Him getting homesick for France

The players not responding to him - his playing and coaching record means that he'll have it all to prove to the players from day one, he'll have no ready made credibility.

SB getting sacked.


It's a huge break for him, but it's also a massive gamble by SB. It's odds against working and if it doesn't, SB's judgement is seriously open to question - jobs for the boys or is that the best you can attract?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Really don't know how I feel about this. Maybe SB is bringing in a mate just because he wants stability with someone he trusts.

All depends on if he tries to redo the entire defence again or continues with what we've got.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

Really don't know how I feel about this. Maybe SB is bringing in a mate just because he wants stability with someone he trusts.

All depends on if he tries to redo the entire defence again or continues with what we've got.

Which is understandable. But overriding anything else JeA must have the ability. Ultimately nothing else will matter.

SB's been in situ for less than 2 years and this will be his 3rd defence coach. I don't remember JeA's name cropping up previously so I'm not sure how high up the hit list he ever really was.

This time round SB seemingly spoke to 3 people. Bizarrely, Laker told him he wasn't interested - and sources in SA have said he wouldn't have been suitable anyhow as his first language is Afrikaans. You have to wonder how someone not interested got to the final 3 of what should be a plum job.

 

[Reiser99]

The whole recruitment process feels amateurish. Maybe it's being harsh but it doesn't feel like all the coaches have been selected for a 4 year cycle. For a national setup that should be the aim, minimum. Sinfield and Wigglesworth have both been rumoured to be leaving then stayed. We've already had other coaches leave. Coaches also being shuffled around and not being given a clear role. England coaching jibs are probably fast becoming toxic.

There should have been a temporary coaching setup for the WC, with everyone but SB on short term contracts. Then after a review with some coaches staying for the next WC and some new recruited with clear portfolios. Now, no reputable coach will want to join England.