England 2023/24

[Which Tyler]

If you've only got a tenuous link to Wales and you've got other options, why would you commit this early?

Well, that bit's easy.
A] It's easier to break into the Welsh team than the English - and likely to remain so, so unless you're a world class talent, you'll get more caps opting for Wales than opting for England (if you're willing to move to Wales at the end of your current contract, or sign a long-term contract now)
B] It's still an honour
C] Your salary increases NOW
D] Guaranteed caps, rather than possible future caps

 

[BPM]

All that may be true, but the counter argument is equally simple.

Wait a year and you might get picked for a better team with better financial rewards won't be forced to move to a Welsh regional side.

Yes, caps aren't guaranteed, but if you're really good enough the caps will come plus Wales are unlikely to discover too many more in the meantime.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I really don't think anyone who has two English parents could ever call playing for wales an honour. More like a disgrace.

The grandparent rule is a joke, wales are a joke and trying to poach young players like this is a joke.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kevin Sinfield offered three-year deal by England to take him through to 2027 World Cup

Exclusive: RFU have made renewed attempts to keep rugby league icon on coaching staff after shock exit of Felix Jones

www.telegraph.co.uk

£300k a year on the table after Borthwick campaigned for it.....but:

Sinfield has effectively been Borthwick's No 2 throughout his time with England, but has grown frustrated over the last year at a lack of definition to his job. He was shifted from defence coach to a dual role encompassing skills and kicking following the arrival of Jones in January.

Sinfield is hugely popular with England's players, who all want him to stay on. The RFU are hopeful he can be persuaded to do so, but have yet to reach an agreement over a new contract and Sinfield has not offered any guarantees over whether he will sign a new deal.

Borthwick is continuing to explore his options regarding a new defence coach to replace Jones, with Sinfield unlikely to return to that role. The former England rugby league captain is pushing for greater clarity over where he would fit into the coaching team, with negotiations set to continue.

 

[Which Tyler]

All that may be true, but the counter argument is equally simple.

Oh, of course, and I never meant to suggest otherwise.
Mine was a simple response to the question "If you've only got a tenuous link to Wales and you've got other options, why would you commit this early?"
Not the question "If you've only got options, what are the pros and cons with committing this early?"

Oh, and I fully agree that Gatland is being a massive twat in getting the kids hopes up. He's not an obvious worldy from juniors, and isn't yet proven at club level, he shouldn't be expecting any conversations with any international coaches yet - not even for those with A squads to pick.

 

[Geordie]

Kevin Sinfield offered three-year deal by England to take him through to 2027 World Cup

Exclusive: RFU have made renewed attempts to keep rugby league icon on coaching staff after shock exit of Felix Jones

www.telegraph.co.uk

£300k a year on the table after Borthwick campaigned for it.....but:

I wonder what Borthwick is looking for. He seems to be very clear and determined on what he wants in certain aspects but then unclear in others which appears to be causing problems in camp with the coaches.

Something must be driving that. I hope he gets it sorted as we were seeing progression.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

I wonder what Borthwick is looking for. He seems to be very clear and determined on what he wants in certain aspects but then unclear in others which appears to be causing problems in camp with the coaches.

Something must be driving that. I hope he gets it sorted as we were seeing progression.

Yep. All a bit bizarre.

Sinfield knows the camp etc. If SB really wants him, really how hard can it be to nail down a role? But the sheer fact this has been going on for a while rings massive alarm bells. It's not exactly screaming commitment or clarity.

I wonder if the issue's something like this? KS seems a pretty straight bloke and would probably accept that just by dint of experience there are better technical coaches around. Meanwhile SB's desperate to have him around as his bridge to the players as he seems to be able to connect with them in a way that SB himself probably can't. Net result a bit of a generally useful non role along the lines of a Minister Without Portfolio.

 

[Geordie]

.


Yep. All a bit bizarre.

Sinfield knows the camp etc. If SB really wants him, really how hard can it be to nail down a role? But the sheer fact this has been going on for a while rings massive alarm bells. It's not exactly screaming commitment or clarity.

I wonder if the issue's something like this? KS seems a pretty straight bloke and would probably accept that just by dint of experience there are better technical coaches around. Meanwhile SB's desperate to have him around as his bridge to the players as he seems to be able to connect with them in a way that SB himself probably can't. Net result a bit of a generally useful non role along the lines of a Minister Without Portfolio.

Yes, my confusion is this..

Sinfield was D coach, but then SB seemed to decide he wasnt what he wanted there but clearly wants him in the camp. So he was moved to a skills coach / kicking / mentor mish mash role
Jones was brought in as defence coach, but he seemingly wanted to be attack coach, which has now ultimately driven Jones out.

So now (if the reports are correct) Sinfield being offered £300k a year, with a vacant D position, and yet SB is not looking to move Sinfield there and wants an outsider.

Its odd. Borthwick seems very clear on what he wants or maybe the type of person / skills set he wants in the camp and for each coaching role, and is very driven to bring them in, and yet things seem so very unclear at the sametime.

 

[BPM]

Perhaps some of it is also driven by the fact that Sinfield is a great character and someone they want around but isn't currently skilled enough (as a coach) to be in charge of a specific area i.e. defence.

Feels like he's the right guy but they (and possibly he) don't know where he fits in.

 

[Crash Hamster]

"Kevin, I'd like you to coach things."
"What things, Sniff Bostik?"
"You know, Kevin, things. Things you're good at."
"But what things, Steve. Your nose is bleeding, BTW"
"Intang... intanj..., things you can't coach, Kevin. I can make it do that on command, BTW."

 

[BPM]

To me it feels like Sinfield's biggest strength is his motivational ability/bringing the squad together rather than coaching per se. Essentially packaging the messages in a way the players buy into more successfully.

I see him as more of a hype man/player liaison type than a tactical coach and his role might be as simple as rounding out Borthwick's weaknesses. Yes, we shouldn't need that, but in reality, almost every head coach has an assistant who complements their skills. Also, I'd see it as a positive of sorts if Borthwick is self aware to recognise his own limitations.

 

[Saintjay]

So going by this thread at the moment Sinfield is a very well paid motivational speaker.

 

[Scotty]

So going by this thread at the moment Sinfield is a very well paid motivational speaker.

Our defence under him wasn't perfect but it was getting better and then Jones came in, is he a bad defence coach or a good one they don't trust, and if we bring in someone different then they will want their own defensive style meaning all the rush defence we've build we be lost.

I'd give he a crack at defence coach and hire an actual attack coach

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Perhaps some of it is also driven by the fact that Sinfield is a great character and someone they want around but isn't currently skilled enough (as a coach) to be in charge of a specific area i.e. defence.

Feels like he's the right guy but they (and possibly he) don't know where he fits in.

Yep - exactly what I was alluding to in about 3 times as many words!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Do we have an attack coach at the moment? All this focus on defence when it's the easiest part of the game.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Prob the most important part TBF

 

[Scotty]

Prob the most important part TBF

How would you prioritise attack, defence and other aspects?

 

[West Country Wail]

How would you prioritise attack, defence and other aspects?

I heard Dan Cole say attack takes the longest so you would think that would be priority but defence seems so mindset based it needs nurturing in a way that reps and timing can't do. Another reason to keep Kevin Sinfield as a mentor with another northern league coach in for the required linespeed and contact

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Why just not use the current defensive structure we have in place and then work on attack. There is no reason why a new defensive coach needs to start from stretch, just use what we have.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Why just not use the current defensive structure we have in place and then work on attack. There is no reason why a new defensive coach needs to start from stretch, just use what we have.

It does feel like we are constantly reinventing the wheel...