[2021 Six Nations] England Squad

[Rinkadink]

PRL don't exactly cover themselves in glory tho....

I agree but it's significantly better than the RFU and PRL have shown they can at least keep the game professional, look how the RFU failed at their "Championship"/tier 2.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is it significantly better?
In what way?

You do know that it would have been easier to get their "Championship/tier 2" on point if the PRL didn't want to treat it as a ugly stepchild?
PRL don't have much of a club what they are doing and got lucky that their clubs got money behind it then at the time the game went pro, and not much has changed since.

Like in what way was Bristol giving Lam £750,000 to walk away from his 3 year deal contract (yes he had a backdoor clause, but is that different to the RFU paying Bristol a settlement?)

 

[BrokenWing]

I see the intrigue as to why Ford didnt come back on continues.

Eddie - Hmm, Faz is coming off injured, time to go to my back up plan.... George, are you warmed up

George - Yes boss.

Eddie - Good, take this note to the referee.

George - It just says "We forfeit"

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Do people think thats it for Ford now...Smith to take pole position? I really hope its not Farrell moving back to 10...surely not.

What's his defence and goal kicking like these days?

There's an increasingly strong argument for Smith. I wouldn't discard Ford totally, he can still play a role, especially if he's given more licence.

Unfortunately I do think its time to say thanks and bye to Fazlet. Slightly unfair maybe, he's been undercooked for this 6N, has had too much dumped on his plate with the captaincy which he just isn't suited for, and has been working with a coach who clearly isn't getting through to his players. Faz has to take his share of responsibility, but I do think he's been swimming uphill. Nonetheless I now think there are better options to develop at both 10 and 12. That said he'll probably star for the Lions and God knows where that will leave us!

 

[BrokenWing]

I'd be interested to know exactly how many minutes of England games he HASN'T been involved in since first picked. It appears that he's been involved in every game in some aspect.

For all his preparation, it appears Eddie never once contemplated a team without Farrell.

Even without the lack of form Farrell has gone through, to not even consider an England team without him on the pitch is inexcusable.

 

[Wasps92]

No chance Farrell is out of the team whilst Eddie remains at the helm. It's almost symbiotic, one can't survive without the other.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I expect Jones to survive the review, but I think one of the caveats will be that he'll have to promise change.

One of those would surely have to be a change of captaincy. While I think it's time to move on from Farrell, I also think he'd be a much better player freed from that responsibility. Launchbury would be my man to the RWC, with Curry or Underhill groomed to take over after that.

 

[McTallshort]

Question: How many of the underperforming players could Jones have swapped given the Covid bubbles etc.

Say he wanted to bring Simmons or Smith into the squad, would he have actually been able to do it?

 

[Geordie]

i agree...i think Farrells time as captain has to end.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Say he wanted to bring Simmons or Smith into the squad, would he have actually been able to do it?

He could've changed things around as much as he wanted, really - he dropped West and Obano from the squad early doors, despite both being named as full members of the squad, not just injury cover
Ribbans was training with the squad for weeks before being officially called up, so it was nowhere near as bubbled as the initial reports made it seem

Underhill also dropped out pre-6N so he could've called up Simmonds then (or after Willis' injury)

 

[Which Tyler]

I expect Jones to survive the review, but I think one of the caveats will be that he'll have to promise change.

I don't think it works that way - if you hire someone to be head coach, you have to accept that they know what they're doing.
Either you have trust in them to do their job, or you don't. If you feel that you have to put preconditions of what and how they do, then don't give them the job in the first place.

I absolutely agree that Farrell needs to be stripped of the captain's armband; and needs to be challenged for his shirt itself; but that can't be a pre-condition of Eddie's employment

 

[Geordie]

Who takes the captaincy though...not many candidates putting their hand up...

Itoje or Curry are the main ones...

A curve ball outsider might be Underhill, but his injury issues might hold that back.

 

[Which Tyler]

Who takes the captaincy though...not many candidates putting their hand up...

Itoje or Curry are the main ones...

A curve ball outsider might be Underhill, but his injury issues might hold that back.

Which I think illustrates the problem. You need multiple leaders in the team; and yet if it isn't Farrell (who may or may not be a leader of men, but he's a terrible captain) there's a bit of a dearth of options.
And yes, Itoje and Curry are the obvious options. Both are students of the game (especially Maro) and both lead by example. Captaincy has often tightened up some of the penalty magnets game in the past (partially through getting a touch more leeway from the ref), that I'd pick Maro for the role.
Behind those 2... who's sure of their place and therefore a candidate?
LHP is a bit of a revolving door at the moment between Marler and Mako; and Genge isn't far off challenging them.
George and LCD are (or should be) fighting it out.
Sinckler is no captain
Itoje's partner at lock is up for grabs
Underhill... is an interesting option - but how secure is he really? I don't see him or Curry being dropped for anyone; but if Willis, Simmonds, or anyone else is going to get a look in, then Underhill seems more vulnerable than Curry. Beyond that, he's a "lead by example" option, but is he a student of the game? is he one to talk to the ref, or talk to the huddle? he just seems a little quiet for a captain.
Billy is no captaincy material either, and shouldn't be undroppable - if it was thought it would tighten up his game and return him to the force he once was, then it'd a worth it, but a hell of a risk.

Youngs is way too thick
Ford is an option, but I hate FH captains - they tend to take it all on themselves (something Ford can be guilty of anyway) - but he should be part of the leadership group - should also be undroppable, but doesn't seem to be.
We have options at IC; and any further out than that is just too far away from the action and a sign of desperation if appointed captain.

Really, we've only got Itoje, Curry, Underhill and Ford to form a leadership group from, and to find a captain amongst - all seem more like lieutenants than captains, and isn't enough to form an effective leadership group either IMO

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Which I think illustrates the problem. You need multiple leaders in the team; and yet if it isn't Farrell (who may or may not be a leader of men, but he's a terrible captain) there's a bit of a dearth of options.
And yes, Itoje and Curry are the obvious options. Both are students of the game (especially Maro) and both lead by example. Captaincy has often tightened up some of the penalty magnets game in the past (partially through getting a touch more leeway from the ref), that I'd pick Maro for the role.
Behind those 2... who's sure of their place and therefore a candidate?
LHP is a bit of a revolving door at the moment between Marler and Mako; and Genge isn't far off challenging them.
George and LCD are (or should be) fighting it out.
Sinckler is no captain
Itoje's partner at lock is up for grabs
Underhill... is an interesting option - but how secure is he really? I don't see him or Curry being dropped for anyone; but if Willis, Simmonds, or anyone else is going to get a look in, then Underhill seems more vulnerable than Curry. Beyond that, he's a "lead by example" option, but is he a student of the game? is he one to talk to the ref, or talk to the huddle? he just seems a little quiet for a captain.
Billy is no captaincy material either, and shouldn't be undroppable - if it was thought it would tighten up his game and return him to the force he once was, then it'd a worth it, but a hell of a risk.

Youngs is way too thick
Ford is an option, but I hate FH captains - they tend to take it all on themselves (something Ford can be guilty of anyway) - but he should be part of the leadership group - should also be undroppable, but doesn't seem to be.
We have options at IC; and any further out than that is just too far away from the action and a sign of desperation if appointed captain.

Really, we've only got Itoje, Curry, Underhill and Ford to form a leadership group from, and to find a captain amongst - all seem more like lieutenants than captains, and isn't enough to form an effective leadership group either IMO

Dombrandt has been good as Captiain at Quins when lewies has been out....

Just sayin

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd wondered about Underhill as well (wonder-hill?) - I feel like he's injured quite a lot, though (or is that just recency bias because he's just been out injured?)

Realistically it's Itoje vs Curry,
More realistically: It's Farrell until EJ is gone

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I'd wondered about Underhill as well (wonder-hill?) - I feel like he's injured quite a lot, though (or is that just recency bias because he's just been out injured?)

Realistically it's Itoje vs Curry,
More realistically: It's Farrell until EJ is gone

IDK, i've always felt like it was going to get passed to Itoje post Lions. I've not got any evidence for that, but it always felt like the plan

 

[TRF_Olyy]

IDK, i've always felt like it was going to get passed to Itoje post Lions. I've not got any evidence for that, but it always felt like the plan

I thought it would go to Itoje after Hartley tbh,
It's hard to guess where Itoje (or anyone else, really) features in the captaincy race because the game(s?) that Farrell has missed, Itoje has also missed (namely the USA game in the RWC where Ford was made captain)

I wouldn't be surprised to see him captain, and wouldn't be against it either

 

[Jakedood]

I thought it would go to Itoje after Hartley tbh,
It's hard to guess where Itoje (or anyone else, really) features in the captaincy race because the game(s?) that Farrell has missed, Itoje has also missed (namely the USA game in the RWC where Ford was made captain)

I wouldn't be surprised to see him captain, and wouldn't be against it either

Itoje was the one communicating with ref and making decisions from what I saw when Farrell went off if that helps

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Itoje was the one communicating with ref and making decisions from what I saw when Farrell went off if that helps

It felt like no one knew who captain was, tbh - Itoje made a penalty choice at the end, but Curry made a couple before hand, and also did the captains interview post match
I wouldn't be surprised if it was Farrell was captain and Ford VC, as they expected at least one of them to be on the pitch at all times - and then when they both went off they just had to guess

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

It felt like no one knew who captain was, tbh - Itoje made a penalty choice at the end, but Curry made a couple before hand, and also did the captains interview post match
I wouldn't be surprised if it was Farrell was captain and Ford VC, as they expected at least one of them to be on the pitch at all times - and then when they both went off they just had to guess

I remember the ref mic picking up the ref asking Itoje if he knew that he had been made captain whilst Farrell was still on the pitch - somewhere between 50-60 minutes I think.


Completely forgot about that until now