[2024 Six Nations] England vs Ireland - 09/03/24

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Thing is, even if consciously you keep telling yourself that England can win and to take it like any other game, I'm sure subconsciously, especially with comments like Heaslip's, some players believed it, even just a little deep down and that little bit can actually make a difference. It might only be a few %, but it was enough to knock Ireland off their stride.

I very much doubt that comment knocked Ireland off their stride. Think that was the blintz defence that did that.

 

[Reiser99]

I very much doubt that comment knocked Ireland off their stride. Think that was the blintz defence that did that.

Fair enough. I certainly don't want to undermine England's effort as they produced one of their best performances in years. However, Ireland weren't at their best either and I reckon in a little bit of underestimating England will have contributed to that.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Fair enough. I certainly don't want to undermine England's effort as they produced one of their best performances in years. However, Ireland weren't at their best either and I reckon in a little bit of underestimating England will have contributed to that.

Chicken and egg, did Ireland being off pace allow England to pressure them or did English pressure knock Ireland off pace. It's a zero sum game, what benefits one side hinders the other.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ireland got it mentally wrong, could debate the reasons why forever, but I don't think you could say they were a side that looked ready for that game. I think there was a leadership issue, Sheehan, Big Joe, Crowley and Nash's only experience of a big away day in the 6n was against France where everything went their way. It was clear that they didn't expect what they came up against on Saturday, could have been underestimating England or not expecting Twickenham to be so daunting, either way is a bad result for Ireland's mental prep.
England's blitz defence was very good but also nothing that Ireland haven't dealt with before, it's a copycat Boks defence and Ireland have beaten them twice in the last 18 months, they also scored 22 points and had the ball and lead with 80 seconds to go, the attack did enough to win that game.

I think Ireland will be focused on their own defence and kicking game in review. England made yards very well, constantly attacking the left wing, Nash might have made a difference but based on his one moment in the game being an attempted hero tackle that wasn't needed I'd say he was exposable too, good homework and good execution from England.
Irelands kicking game was just sloppy, recalibrate and move on. Maybe have Crowley take on a bit more ownership going forward there too.
I don't even think I'd call Saturday a set back for Ireland, definitely a big missed opportunity but that's different.
https://www.therugbyforum.com/threa...gland-vs-ireland-09-03-24.49594/#post-1178100

Our half backs would have dragged us through that one 6 months ago despite the malfunctions but we're still rebuilding there.

Huge for England though, beat France next weekend and they're on the fast-track to top 4, that'll be a mental challenge in itself but one that Borthwick would have wanted.

Ireland v England is the opener for both teams next year, hard to tell what the build up will be like for that one.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don't even think I'd call Saturday a set back for Ireland, definitely a big missed opportunity but that's different.

Exactly. You had a bad day at the office and still could / should have won.

Some players will learn a bit that will benefit you in the long run but no need to overthink it or knee jerk. Maybe your self inflicted wound was the 6:2 bench with Ringrose not involved. Other than that, stuff happens.

Maybe your other issue is Father Time. Not really thought about it before, but 30's well in the rearview mirror for Healy, POM, Murray and Aki. Bealham, JGP, Henderson and Beirne are 32, Conan and Lowe are 31 as is Furlong whose very best looks to be behind him. VdF's 30. Of the rest of Saturday's squad I think only Baird, Crowley and McCarthy are under 25. Not saying it's a huge problem and you have plenty of talent coming through in many positions but some careful management will be needed.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Exactly. You had a bad day at the office and still could / should have won.

Some players will learn a bit that will benefit you in the long run but no need to overthink it or knee jerk. Maybe your self inflicted wound was the 6:2 bench with Ringrose not involved. Other than that, stuff happens.

Maybe your other issue is Father Time. Not really thought about it before, but 30's well in the rearview mirror for Healy, POM, Murray and Aki. Bealham, JGP, Henderson and Beirne are 32, Conan and Lowe are 31 as is Furlong whose very best looks to be behind him. VdF's 30. Of the rest of Saturday's squad I think only Baird, Crowley and McCarthy are under 25. Not saying it's a huge problem and you have plenty of talent coming through in many positions but some careful management will be needed.

Yeah agreed. I think we need about 15 new guys to come in in the current cycle to build a squad (8 years in America is probably the earliest we'll have a chance to be as good as we were last year in a WC realistically).

3 of those are arguably already done, Nash, Crowley and Big Joe all have a full 6n under their belts as starters and will be in all Irish squads at minimum for the foreseeable.

There's a few near guarantees to be top class internationals in the provinces too in Ahern, Osbourne and Prendergast.

And then a lot of 20s talent.

3 and 9 are huge concerns though. Think we could be going to Australia with guys in their mid 30s there.

 

[Jimbo]

I was saving the arrogance for this week when it couldn't possibly backfire. Heaslip threw a few of his former teammates into a battle that wasn't necessary and Stringer obviously misses the lights too. Providing England with extra motivation in Twickenham wasn't a smart move.

Funny reading the start of this thread however, it was mostly a handful of Irish posters convincing the English ones that it wasn't a foregone conclusion.

Aye the Irish team and the fans need to be isolated from the media and some slightly silly pundits, I think most who follow the game realise they are not one of the same, most Irish I've interacted pre game gave England a far better chance than I did.

 

[Half Pint]

Yeah agreed. I think we need about 15 new guys to come in in the current cycle to build a squad (8 years in America is probably the earliest we'll have a chance to be as good as we were last year in a WC realistically).

3 of those are arguably already done, Nash, Crowley and Big Joe all have a full 6n under their belts as starters and will be in all Irish squads at minimum for the foreseeable.

There's a few near guarantees to be top class internationals in the provinces too in Ahern, Osbourne and Prendergast.

And then a lot of 20s talent.

3 and 9 are huge concerns though. Think we could be going to Australia with guys in their mid 30s there.

Wow. Without stretching my brain too hard, I'd kind of assumed that mostly the same Ireland team could come back at the next World Cup to 'make amends' & take up their deserved place in the final.
But remember the '03 england team were mostly in their 30's and were called Dad's Army. Didn't seem to do them any harm.
If you're good enough you're young enough.

 

[LIONSxv]

Wow. Without stretching my brain too hard, I'd kind of assumed that mostly the same Ireland team could come back at the next World Cup to 'make amends' & take up their deserved place in the final.
But remember the '03 england team were mostly in their 30's and were called Dad's Army. Didn't seem to do them any harm.
If you're good enough you're young enough.

Times have changed dramatically since 03. The shelf life of players in certain positions has definitely decreased given the required fitness levels and amount of games.
Back in 03 England were significantly ahead of most teams in terms of fitness and sports science, due to a quicker uptake of professionalism in the 90s
Back to Ire, it will be slow steady easing out of players rather than an a mass exodus. Baird for POM, Ryan to partner McCarthy , Henshaw for Aki ( although Henshaw himself will be 34 next WC)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wow. Without stretching my brain too hard, I'd kind of assumed that mostly the same Ireland team could come back at the next World Cup to 'make amends' & take up their deserved place in the final.
But remember the '03 england team were mostly in their 30's and were called Dad's Army. Didn't seem to do them any harm.
If you're good enough you're young enough.

That team was already on the downward slope in 03. Broke up shortly after and was a mess for years afterwards. I think the Ire set up will be smart enough to avoid that kind of cliff edge but there will need to be some skilled management.

 

[OwenPB]

Haven't had a chance to come back here since before the game. Well done England! Great win playing their own brand of rugby, disrupting the opposition, forcing them to play into your strengths and constantly adding points to the board.

I love a last-second drop goal for the win, still have happy memories of doing it to the French, so I appreciated the coup de grace (I wouldn't say "enjoyed", you get what I mean).

The game was great, the result in itself is interesting but also for where these 2 teams stand going forward. Can England start to believe in themselves more (and get their fans to believe too)? Delayed hangover for Ireland or just a tricky game badly executed?

Either way, it makes next weekend extremely relevant and that's never a bad thing in a championship.