[2021 Six Nations] England Squad

[Vieux Talonneur]

Can't bin him off without someone else properly lined up or we'll end up going into the World Cup with Jim Mallinder in charge (is he still in charge u20s?)

True. But equally if we target someone how long will it take to get them on board?

Not very - cheque books talk. A new man could easily be in place for the summer tour.

But as I said on the other thread, I reckon Jones will get the AIs and those will be make or break.

 

[ncurd]

True. But equally if we target someone how long will it take to get them on board?

Not very - cheque books talk. A new man could easily be in place for the summer tour.

But as I said on the other thread, I reckon Jones will get the AIs and those will be make or break.

I suppose it depends on the details of results clause of his contract, its almost certainly tied up with the 6 nations and there is probably a window the RFU have to enact it.

Thinking about it I'd rather a new man in for the summer tour (if it goes ahead), give them a real opptunity to look at players not selected, then he has the autumn to mix those with the Lions he wants to keep. Its also the same arguement for EJ but I can't help but feel he's decided who his core players are regardless and they are some of the worst performers.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Well - they will need to line someone up. They can't surely just settle on a coach for 4 years and not have a backup if things go wrong?

I can only assume Gatland, Schmidt, Lam are obvious candidates because they are.

Gats and Schmidt are a step down. Lam would be good and has said we wants the Wales? job in the past so this would be a good step for him

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Well - they will need to line someone up. They can't surely just settle on a coach for 4 years and not have a backup if things go wrong?

True, but how many truely international class coaches are there in the game?
And how many are available to take a new job at the drop of a hat?

It's not as simple as saying "OK Eddie you're out - Pat Lam: you're in" because PL is under contract at Bristol and you think they're just going to let him go without a fight?

I'm not sure the England job is as attractive a role as many think it is, as well - it's certainly a....prestigious? job, but it also comes with the weight of the English press and the club vs country vs blazers politics. Not saying there won't be people interested, but it's another thing to add to the equation - especially as they've seen people turn on EJ/sack him mid contract, despite having (statistically) a really successful time as coach

We also don't have the cash to just keep adding zeroes until A.N Other walks out on their current contract, too (though if the blazers haven't siphoned off most of the CVC money we should be doing better now)

 

[Wendigo7]

Scott Robertson worth looking at? Good for him as you say in his progression and he looks a quality coach.

Whoever takes the job, needs to be on the remit of phasing out certain players.

 

[Wendigo7]

Certain positions we haven't tried anyone else for a consistent period of time.

Until recently:
1. Hooker
2. No 8
3. Scrum Half (we really need work here)
4. Fly Half
5. Centres
6. Full Backs

Unfortunately I think unless they reinvent themselves or we go on a crazy run of form, entirely possible, 9-10-12 need to be phased out. Those however are Eddie's real spine so if they need to go then Eddie probably needs to go for that to happen. Billy's now not really played well and very attacking bar a miss pass option for about 3 or 4 years. He's a good decoy but ball in hand bar the wales game, he hasn't been great and we need to look at someone else and try different directions with the pack. Might be a sin but we could be at a point post 23 where players who've been in form for so long, have waited so long ala Robson... and the chance has been missed. We can't afford to keep doing this.

 

[ncurd]

Whoever takes the job, needs to be on the remit of phasing out certain players.

Don't think you should ever dictate to a national coach they can't pick individuals who normally are available for selection.

Who knows under a different coach Daly might be able to commit to a tackle.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

True, but how many truely international class coaches are there in the game?
And how many are available to take a new job at the drop of a hat?

It's not as simple as saying "OK Eddie you're out - Pat Lam: you're in" because PL is under contract at Bristol and you think they're just going to let him go without a fight?

I'm not sure the England job is as attractive a role as many think it is, as well - it's certainly a....prestigious? job, but it also comes with the weight of the English press and the club vs country vs blazers politics. Not saying there won't be people interested, but it's another thing to add to the equation - especially as they've seen people turn on EJ/sack him mid contract, despite having (statistically) a really successful time as coach

We also don't have the cash to just keep adding zeroes until A.N Other walks out on their current contract, too (though if the blazers haven't siphoned off most of the CVC money we should be doing better now)

If he does go I could see an interim appointment of a proven heavyweight like Hansen through to the next RWC with someone riding shotgun to take over afterwards.

What we need now is someone adept at making an immediate short term impact and sorting out someone else's mess. That is precisely the skill set of one Edward Jones. Is he available??

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I blame it all on Umbro. Nothing else has happened apart from them starting to make our kits

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

For those saying Jones has a plan, that doesn't excuse abject poor performance. We are talking not even doing the basics right.

Name any other sport where a team will intentionally throw away games and sandbag for 4 years just to win the world cup? That's right, it doesn't happen anywhere.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Name any other sport where a team will intentionally throw away games and sandbag for 4 years just to win the world cup? That's right, it doesn't happen anywhere.

He's not sandbagging for 4 years though is he? He won everything there was to win last year and has 'sandbagged' for 1 tournament this year. It's a pretty large jump to assume he's going to do the same for the next 2 and a half years.

 

[Which Tyler]

For those saying Jones has a plan, that doesn't excuse abject poor performance. We are talking not even doing the basics right.

Name any other sport where a team will intentionally throw away games and sandbag for 4 years just to win the world cup? That's right, it doesn't happen anywhere.

That would be great point - if it wasn't a complete straw-man argument.
Nobody has claimed that him having plan excuses poor performance. No-one has claimed we're doing the basics right.
Nobody has claimed that we're intentionally throwing games or sandbagging at all, let alone for 4 years.

You are right that it doesn't happen anywhere - including Eddie Jones' England

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So if he isn't planning it that means it's happening and he isn't intending it to happen? Pretty sure a coaches credibility is called in to question when the team goes through the worst tournament in their history on his watch and it isn't because he is doing something that caused it...?

If he isn't sandbagging then that means he also isn't stopping it. As I've pointed out, the trend has been steadily downwards since he took over in terms of both our ability to score and not concede. 2019 briefly stopped it but the thing is the last 2 years we have resumed on exactly the same trend as if 2019 hadn't happened.

 

[Geordie]

So those wanting a big change...what would your ideal starting 15 and bench be for the first game in the Autumn Internationals ?

(Baring in mind we'll have the Summer tour if it goes ahead for some players to get a run out)

 

[ncurd]

So those wanting a big change...what would your ideal starting 15 and bench be for the first game in the Autumn Internationals ?

(Baring in mind we'll have the Summer tour if it goes ahead for some players to get a run out)

I don't have my ear to the ground enough on domestic but essentially

1) AN Other
2) LCD/George
3) Sinckler
4) Launchburry
5) Itoje (c?)
6) Curry (c?)
7) Underhill
8) AN Other
9) AN Other
10) Ford/AN Other
11) May
12) AN Other
13) Manu/AN Other
14) Nowell
15) Watson

I'm also not wholly against keeping those players but that's why I want a coaching change, the players are capable of being better we've seen it the problem is the way they are being told to play currently.

 

[Wendigo7]

We knew George Ford could come on, but wanted Dan Robson at fly half, England claim

England insist they knew that George Ford could have been sent back onto the field against Ireland when Owen Farrell was removed for a head injury assessment —

www.thetimes.co.uk

They knew Ford could come on but preferred Robson to come in at fly half.

Think you've just seen Ford's last game for England. At least, under Eddie Jones.

 

[ncurd]

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Okay thats it, not even going to entertain it EJ should be fired that is loosing the plot and then some.

 

[g6mcg]

That must just be them trying to conceal that Farrell was knocked out or similar?

Or just saying something stupid to grab attention - though pretty poor to throw Ford under the bus as a deflection.

 

[Wendigo7]

That must just be them trying to conceal that Farrell was knocked out or similar?

Nah Farrell had a head concussion and failed the protocol, he wasn't knocked out.

That's a shocker. Ford is finished at least under Eddie Jones now. They'd entertain prefering to bring on 2 9s, and have Robson be at 10, than the experienced world cup final playing Fly Half they had at their disposal to come on again after being tactically subbed off originally.

Sadly, Ford's toast under Jones now. That's an awful, awful admission.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That must just be them trying to conceal that Farrell was knocked out or similar?

Or just saying something stupid to grab attention - though pretty poor to throw Ford under the bus as a deflection.

He's used to it....remember Jones saying he shouldn't have picked him for the RWC final?

Anyway here's an article that aged spectacularly well. I'd quite forgotten Ed Robinson was involved, Dad must be proud that he's carried on the family tradition.

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