[2020 Six Nations] France vs England (02/02/20)

[Ragey Erasmus]

Very good point. I'd have thought it's an entirely different skill set and mindset.

You would have thought so, 7's has plenty of space and attacks need to do much less to try to manipulate it. I image 7's coaches are good at coaching what to do after you have exploited a gap but I don't see what they could know about being able to create one. However if he is in charge of teaching 7's based skills such as keeping the ball alive through accurate offloading and getting the ball quickly to fast players when there is a gap then he could certainly play a key role, just as long as someone else is dealing with how to manipulate defences to open those gaps up.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Username does not check out

Ah, you rumbled me.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Imagine being a Sarries fan but never having heard of Ben Spencer!
Hell, if those were the prerequisites then Wigglesworth should have that shirt nailed down until he retires

Haha, Spencer is unfortunately inconsistent with both his long passing and his box kicking. 18 months ago I would have predicted he would be clear 1st choice now, but his consistency hasn't improved. I would genuinely prefer Wiggy in a big game to Spencer, even now with the old lads legs not what they used to be. Anyway, my point is not that the person who best exemplifies these traits should be the starting 9, it's that there needs to be a minimum threshold in both to be considered for selection and I cannot think of an English qualified 9 that meets that level. Maybe it's because there are genuinely very few England prospects starting in that position in the Prem. 7 clubs predominantly start a player who is not English qualified or is too old for consideration in this world cup cycle. 2 clubs provide the current England 9s. Of the remaining 3 clubs, one is being relegated to the championship next season and the other two (Bath and Wasps) seem to have players who are out of favour with Eddie. Until more young English 9s become clear 1st choice for their clubs, how can EJ be expected to pick them?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

You would have thought so, 7's has plenty of space and attacks need to do much less to try to manipulate it. I image 7's coaches are good at coaching what to do after you have exploited a gap but I don't see what they could know about being able to create one. However if he is in charge of teaching 7's based skills such as keeping the ball alive through accurate offloading and getting the ball quickly to fast players when there is a gap then he could certainly play a key role, just as long as someone else is dealing with how to manipulate defences to open those gaps up.

Yeah, I'm thinking that he can really add something to our attack off turnover ball. You can see when we get a turnover that the players are trying to go quick to exploit the fact that the defence is still organising itself, but we don't actually seem to make the big breaks that we should at those times. NZ are masters of scoring off turnover ball and they always look like a sevens team when they do it, so I hope that Amor can really improve us in that area. It can make all the difference in a tight game.

 

[Roady26]

I would have liked to see Genge get a start but as long as he gets plenty of time off the bench I'm happy.
Stuart getting the nudge over Williams is a big call, hoping he steps up.
Kruis being phased out because he's going to Japan I presume. I rate Ewels - with Launchers out this is a big chance for him.
Lawes at 6 is annoying and the wrong choice but I don't think it will have a glaring impact on this game.
Curry will do just fine at 8 at scrum time as long the scrum isn't getting mushed which seems unlikely, but still the wrong selection.
Glad Underhill is still in.
No comment on the 9's - we all knew it was coming.
Would have preferred Faz at 10 but not too bothered. Devoto on the bench so I could see him coming on for Ford and Faz sliding into 10. Excited for that.
Chuffed to see Furbank at 15. Really rooting for him to put in a big performance. Daly plays better on the wing imo and hopefully will be spurred on if he thinks he could get dropped for Nowell or big Joe later in the year.

 

[spartan32]

Cant say im sold.

So say Furbank feels the pressure and is having a shocker...who goes to wing? Guessing daly to FB but still no wing cover.

Good to see Furbank getting a shot though.

Lawes at 6....sigh

Marler should be phased to third choice IMO maybe because of the french pack.

Its a good squad but im a little worried.

JJ

 

[Leinster Fan]

Why do England still have two centres on the bench? Would it not make more sense to have a back three player in there instead?

Think England will win this comfortably, most pundits seem to have France ahead of Wales and Ireland and competing with England, which is a level of hype they've done nothing to deserve. There's a lot of raw talent in the backs and they'll score some nice tries but I'm yet to be convinced that their pack is either experienced or even good enough to consistently win tests against quality opposition.

 

[spartan32]

You would have thought so, 7's has plenty of space and attacks need to do much less to try to manipulate it. I image 7's coaches are good at coaching what to do after you have exploited a gap but I don't see what they could know about being able to create one. However if he is in charge of teaching 7's based skills such as keeping the ball alive through accurate offloading and getting the ball quickly to fast players when there is a gap then he could certainly play a key role, just as long as someone else is dealing with how to manipulate defences to open those gaps up.

more and more in the modern game the success of a teams attack with ball in hand comes from the ability to offload and keep the all moving at pace. Slow down for a second at test level and some massive monster with hands the size of dinner plates wraps you up and the whole things descends into an arm wrestle, and given the way the game is now reffed, the whistle blows and we end up in a thrilling scrum, or a kick for goal/touch.

so I can see the value in coaching those sort of skills, although I take the point that 7s players have acres of space to play with and finding that in a proper game pf 15s is much more challenging.

on another note I'm pretty pleased with the team. Looking forward to see what fur bank can do, its a solid bench that could really turn a game. I have the same gripes regarding Young's as everyone else so won't go into that, and Im pretty ambivalent about Lawes, although the 6 thing does seem an odd choice.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Marler should be phased to third choice IMO maybe because of the french pack.

Polar opposite - he's our best scrummaging LH, our best all round LH, and a total WUM (always handy against the French - see Moore, B et al). I'm delighted he's reversed his retirement decision.

In my book he's our no1 no1 and the other 2 should be scrapping for the bench spot.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Why do England still have two centres on the bench? Would it not make more sense to have a back three player in there instead?

Nowell, Watson and Cokanasiga are all injured. We've already got an uncapped player at FB, probably not a good idea to have another one on the bench covering the back three, especially as the game's in Paris. JJ has plenty of experience, won't fear France and can cover 11, 12 and 14. And Devoto has played FB too (I think).

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Polar opposite - he's our best scrummaging LH, our best all round LH, and a total WUM (always handy against the French - see Moore, B et al). I'm delighted he's reversed his retirement decision.

In my book he's our no1 no1 and the other 2 should be scrapping for the bench spot.

While I agree he's our best scrummaging LH, he doesn't add much, if anything at all, as a carrier. Mako and Genge definitely do. So I wouldn't say Marler's our best all-round LH, but he's certainly a good one and I'm glad he's there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You would've thought, after the World Cup, people would stop wanting our props to be flyhalves or crashball centres, over scrummagers

Marler is a perfectly adequate carrier for a prop - he's not making audacious out the back offloads and 5 man miss passes, but he's also not getting turned inside out at the scrum. I know which one I value more from my props.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

You would've thought, after the World Cup, people would stop wanting our props to be flyhalves or crashball centres, over scrummagers

I don't see why they can't be both. Mako and Genge aren't bad scrummagers, but are not as good as Marler. So Marler should be mentoring them, and Proudfoot should be coaching them, to make them as good as Marler, or even better. I don't think either player has yet hit their ceiling.

 

[McTallshort]

I don't see why they can't be both. Mako and Genge aren't bad scrummagers, but are not as good as Marler. So Marler should be mentoring them, and Proudfoot should be coaching them, to make them as good as Marler, or even better. I don't think either player has yet hit their ceiling.

Against France you need your best scrummaging props and Marler is as good a carrier as you need.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The irony is that when Marler started out his loose play was better than his tight. And it's not so long ago - 3/4 yrs maybe that he was taking a lot of flak for the angle of his scrummaging.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It's crazy to think that Genge was first capped back in 2016 and 4 years later still hasn't really put his hand up to be 1st choice.

Edit: Wow, just checked and he's still only 24. Thought he was more about the 26-27 range. Still has plenty of time on the clock.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Why do England still have two centres on the bench? Would it not make more sense to have a back three player in there instead?

Think England will win this comfortably, most pundits seem to have France ahead of Wales and Ireland and competing with England, which is a level of hype they've done nothing to deserve. There's a lot of raw talent in the backs and they'll score some nice tries but I'm yet to be convinced that their pack is either experienced or even good enough to consistently win tests against quality opposition.

I tend to agree with the over-hype but I don't think there'll be a blowout here. France obviously have the potential and now with 2023 on the horizon they have a genuine focus. They'll beat Italy and Scotland and I reckon one of not two of their other games imo, hopefully this is the one because I love a good Paris win!

Those backs coupled with home advantage could beat anyone with a competent pack performance imo.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

4 locks, 4 centres, 3 opensides is a very EJ team

 

[bushytop]

4 locks, 4 centres, 3 opensides is a very EJ team

4, 4, 3... no goal keeper but 3 strikers! Yeah I could see Eddie going with that.

 

[duncanb]

My acca is France by 3 as odds were great, but team picked England by +10 for anyone who waste a tenner looks great value.
Yes I've had a punt against my main bet and I have no pessimist thoughts about game.