[2016 Rugby Championship] Australia v New Zealand (20/08/2016)

[Tony Manx]

Papers reporting Giteau has broken his ankle.

My wife had a broken ankle and there is no way she could put any weight on it for minimum three weeks never mind after 30 seconds and then go back on a pitch!!

If it is broken it could only have happened after he went back in and not the first incident!

I reckon he could well have broken a bone IN his ankle!!

 

[FrenchFan]

Papers reporting Giteau has broken his ankle.

My wife had a broken ankle and there is no way she could put any weight on it for minimum three weeks never mind after 30 seconds and then go back on a pitch!!

If it is broken it could only have happened after he went back in and not the first incident!

I reckon he could well have broken a bone IN his ankle!!

I think you're right. He broke it when he went back. Should have been taken off. Bad ankle fractures are hard to recover from. Giteau is 34 could this push him out of test rugby?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think you're right. He broke it when he went back. Should have been taken off. Bad ankle fractures are hard to recover from. Giteau is 34 could this push him out of test rugby?

I'd be amazed if he was able to get back into an Oz shirt, and this injury combined with him choosing country over club could spell an end at Toulon too. A sad way for a legend to bow out.

Oz really can't catch a break with 12s. First the devastating news about Christian, now Gits, Toomua and Horne as well. Can we expect a Kerevi-Kuridrani partnership again? Had there not have been so many injuries at 12 I'd have thought Kerevi may have gotten the nod at 13 with how poor Kuridrani was, but that now seems unlikely.

 

[Gavin]

I think you're right. He broke it when he went back. Should have been taken off. Bad ankle fractures are hard to recover from. Giteau is 34 could this push him out of test rugby?

Yeah he'll be done with Test rugby now. I am sad, but glad he got 100 tests for Australia. Be could have been one of the most capped players in the world if Australia hadn't, stupidly, discarded him.

His Toulon boss won't be happy though.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If Crotty's out are we looking at a back line of:
9. Smith
10. Cruden
11. Savea
12. Fekitoa
13. Smith
14. Dagg
15. Barrett

21. Perenara
22. Sopoaga
23. Lienert-Brown

But that's a bit of a mash-up

 

[The Jones Boy]

Aussie are much better than that performance.
Woe betide the AB's if they take the Wobblies too lightly in NZ.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If Crotty's out are we looking at a back line of:
9. Smith
10. Cruden
11. Savea
12. Fekitoa
13. Smith
14. Dagg
15. Barrett

21. Perenara
22. Sopoaga
23. Lienert-Brown

Because that's a bit of a mash-up

Looks a right mash up would rather see starting.
9) Smith
10) Barrett
11) Savea
12) Lienert-Brown
13) Fekitoa
14) Dagg
15) Smith

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Looks a right mash up would rather see starting.
9) Smith
10) Barrett
11) Savea
12) Lienert-Brown
13) Fekitoa
14) Dagg
15) Smith

I'd rather see that too but I can't see Hansen debuting L-B at 12 vs Australia. There's also no way he'll swap Smith and Dagg for the hell of it.

 

[smartcooky]

I really don't understand why people don't like Crotty.

He is a great decision maker (almost never taking a wrong option), he hardly ever makes mistakes, he has an innate ability to straighten an attack, and at the moment, he is the glue holding that backline together. He is also quite a deceptive runner and has a lot more pace than people give him credit for, as evidenced in his opening try.

With Fekitoa, who can be a bit flaky at times, our only real option at 13, we need a steady and dependable 12, and Crotty gives you exactly that.

 

[Five Meters Out]

I really don't understand why people don't like Crotty.

He is a great decision maker (almost never taking a wrong option), he hardly ever makes mistakes, he has an innate ability to straighten an attack, and at the moment, he is the glue holding that backline together. He is also quite a deceptive runner and has a lot more pace than people give him credit for, as evidenced in his opening try.

With Fekitoa, who can be a bit flaky at times, our only real option at 13, we need a steady and dependable 12, and Crotty gives you exactly that.

I agree with you here Smartcooky. Crotty is very dependable. Always has been. However, as such, it will take him a while to win over the NZ public (outside of Canterbury). It will happen with time as he continues to churn out quality performances. But he does require a blockbuster of a partner in midfield. Fekitoa - maybe?? He'd not been having a great season until Saturday and it was a pity about George Mouala's injury.

 

[nickdnz]

I really don't understand why people don't like Crotty.

He is a great decision maker (almost never taking a wrong option), he hardly ever makes mistakes, he has an innate ability to straighten an attack, and at the moment, he is the glue holding that backline together. He is also quite a deceptive runner and has a lot more pace than people give him credit for, as evidenced in his opening try.

With Fekitoa, who can be a bit flaky at times, our only real option at 13, we need a steady and dependable 12, and Crotty gives you exactly that.

I agree in regards to Crotty. He's certainly not a guy who is going to give you ridiculous highlight reels, but he is definitely the best decision maker we currently have at 12.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

same **** different year

 

[Larksea]

I dont hate on Crotty, hes a solid player and I really think its important for us to maintain a guy in midfield that makes tackles and good decisions.

But I do think longer term ideally that guy is going to be Ngatai.

Ngatai is the best midfielder in NZ, not only does he make tackles and good decisions he has genuine xfactor, a superb tactical kicking game and hes a genuine playmaker.

but lets face it his head knock issue must now be considered close to career ending. Still not back and as far as I know he hasn't even started training. At this stage he probably just needs to drop out of selection conversation all together. I mean even if he comes right and starts playing again what happens next time he gets a head knock? The situation sucks, he was absolutely amazing for the chiefs till his head issues.

My next port of thought is that I'm not a fan of the Crotty/Fekitoa combination. Its ok defensively but lacks on attack, fekitoa is a big straight runner but hasn't produced much more than solid crash ball for a couple of years. Crotty is ok but really neither have truly great footwork or passing. Nonu was known as a big power back but really his strength was his footwork and he was at his best when he was passing. His footwork and passing made up for what he lacked on defense. working between Carter and Smith meant he had top level defenders around him.

boiled down for me Crotty is solid but lacks xfactor and Fekitoa doesn't seem to be maturing or getting better with experience (which was absolutely key for Nonu early in his career)

options for me

Moala IMO much better option than Fekitoa, more physical and better footwork. The line breaks and runs he made against wales were actually all about footwork rather than power. Work on the passing game a bit and he will be just all round better than Fekitoa. Cant help but feel if he wasn't injured right now he may have already overtaken Fekitoa.

Crotty is going to struggle to lose the journeyman type tag at this stage. Not overly fast or big, not a great kicking game. Accuracy, good decisions, good link play and finishing when needed. Capable of a really good play every now and then but not a game breaker. Good guy to have around if there are some injuries.

SBW is the obvious option longer term right now when back from injury. Hansen is right maybe this injury break will do him some good leading into 2017-19 I like SBW but honestly I really think we need to develop a better option if Ngatai is really out of the picture long term/for good.

Lienert-Brown - made big strides this season, AB selectors obviously like him. Young, footwork and passing, good speed and gas tank.
Fades - Had a big season, came from no-where really.
Buckman - Was huge last year not big or super fast but makes good decisions, makes big tackles and big plays you just don't expect him to make. on first appearance never struck as AB material but constantly looks like AB material when he plays. Obviously still out injured, can't be far away but not likely to get a debut now after missing basically the whole season.
Proctor - Not my first choice but deserves to be in the mix after a couple of good years. I'll put his name here to keep the canes fans happy

out of the box
Piutau - amazing player, huge talent. Left NZ for the big money far too soon. He could very well be an established AB and WC winner by now. One would hope the blues keep an open line with him. make it an easy option for him to come back. IMO piutau is a much more complete player everywhere than Savea, Naholo, Fekitoa, Crotty, Dagg or NMS. I would take any of those guys out and put Piutau straight into the starting 15. That last test against SA he was fricken good, pretty much saved the game for the AB's. Some guys like Dagg, NMS & Savea I kinda feel safer with Ben Smith there to cover for them and keep things in order. Piutau is a guy who doesn't need the Ben Smith safety net, he has that complete skillset and ability Ben Smith has. Can make those big plays, right decisions and cover for others. Even Dagg at his absolute best while having a great running game would get caught out of position more, miss more tackles and not diffuse situations like Piutau can.

 

[nzlizard]

Crotty - super reliable, great defensive player does the basics really well, just doesn;t have the impact I feel a 12 needs at international level.

Fekitoa, seeing nothing that gets me super excited, solid player, brings out some big hits but not making the impact at 13 I feel we need for a test player, still can grow into it but haven't seen much growing for the last 12 months in the role.

 

[eidde]

Quite irrelevant to the conversation that is now going on, but who else thought Nick Phipps played a pretty incredible half on the wing? Marking a slightly improved Savea he was extremely brave, took his try really well. I reckon he played better there than Haylett-Petty who let Naholo get outside him a couple of times and let the guys inside him take him the other times. Phipps did as well as could be asked in trying to stop Savea's try, and kept pace with him to stop the kick-through from Cruden becoming another try. As an AB's man I was really impressed.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I didn't see much of Phipps, it was all one way traffic all day.

On Piutau, his early departure was a tragedy. Dang is being rewarded for sticking around. Pita would be my choice over Dagg any day.

On Crotty; yeah, big performance against a woeful Aussie, but he is taking his chances and 'growing' into the role.
He reminds me a little of Aaron Mauger who racked up 46 caps. Maybe he is destined to be that kind of player for the AB's. He's a sort of continuity player. He is not slow to shuffle the ball on and he's not slow. Hansen likes his dependability and cool head. Nothing wrong with those attributes in a vacancy left by Nonu and the great Conrad Smith.

Fekitoa, like Nonu when he started, is a slow burner but he hasn't done anything wrong. He has quite a lot of caps but remember many of those were for 5 minutes at the end of a game. His problem is that Moala, when he gets another chance, may shine so brightly that Fekitoa gets pushed into the shade of the bench.

 

[smartcooky]

Quite irrelevant to the conversation that is now going on, but who else thought Nick Phipps played a pretty incredible half on the wing? Marking a slightly improved Savea he was extremely brave, took his try really well. I reckon he played better there than Haylett-Petty who let Naholo get outside him a couple of times and let the guys inside him take him the other times. Phipps did as well as could be asked in trying to stop Savea's try, and kept pace with him to stop the kick-through from Cruden becoming another try. As an AB's man I was really impressed.

I have to agree that Phipps played well on the wing, and he certainly didn't make life easy for The Bus

Thing is though, I don't think Phipps is by any stretch the best Australian SH playing in Super Rugby, which his selection on the bench for this test behind Genia, would seem to suggest. I was astonished when he got selected ahead of Nick Frisbee as the back up SH for the RWC. Frisbee is a better SH IMO, taller and stronger with a better pass, and he has the added bonus of being a good percentage long distance goal-kicker. I'd even rate Nic Stirzacker as at least an even bet with Phipps.

Another problem the Wallabies have is at 10. IMO, Foley is simply not up to it at this level; I think the Wallabies have managed bluff their way through with him running the cutter, but for mine, he is slow, his decision making can be flaky, and he lacks the intuitiveness and vision to be a really good 10. He was good at the RWC where he took the ball to the line against a very poor England side, and against weaker opposition, but he ran into trouble when Scotland's excellent rush defence got in his face. In the final, and again on Saturday night, he sat back in the pocket too far, and got lulled into a false sense of how much additional time that would give him; the Kaino charge down and try was the price for that.

 

[Hendo74]

Honest question: seeing as Foley looks a pale imitation of the brilliant 10 at the RWC, would it be worth giving Quade a go? Bit of unpredictability etc....?

[ducks for cover]

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Honest question: seeing as Foley looks a pale imitation of the brilliant 10 at the RWC, would it be worth giving Quade a go? Bit of unpredictability etc....?

[ducks for cover]

Nah you don't have to duck for cover, Quade does that in a game enough times for everyone.

 

[Larksea]

oh heck yeah, select Cooper for the NZ game. The media will have a field day with it.

back to the game, was interesting how we really failed to nail home the advantage in the 2nd half after cutting them to bits in the first.

I dont think Cruden and Savea are great Bench options. Bringing either of them on causes shuffling and I don't see them as impact players as such. Cruden is a straight up 10 and with the form Barrett is in he should stay at 10 and not be shifted around. julian is just out of form and to be blunt past his best.

Sopoaga would be a better option than Cruden. And surely we can find a better option than Savea. I think Moala's injury cut down on options here and maybe they want Lienert-Brown in camp a bit longer before giving him a go but heck how good would it be to see him or McKenzie get a shot? I think both have more versatility and form than Cruden & Savea.

Gutted Nathan Harris is injured and basically out for the season. I think at times he genuinely looked like competition for coles and an an awesome backup option not surprised hes kinda leapfrogged Codie Taylor in the pecking order.

Crockett actually impressed me, first game in a long time he really looked the part there must surely have been some selection pressure on him.

Sam Cane had a huge game. that may quiet the Ardie Savea Chorus a bit. Canes selection isn't unjustified, hes playing well and hes got better each test this year in this post McCaw era.

And the Naholo injury as well.... He was a very handy tool on attack and maybe him leaving he field was some of the reason we really failed to keep points flowing in the 2nd half. He will be hard to replace, Savea has nothing on Naholo right now.