• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

All Blacks Squad 2023 TRC

Larksea

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
3,252
Country Flag
New Zealand
Squad: Hookers: Codie Taylor, Dane Coles, Samisoni Taukei'aho; Props: Ethan de Groot, Fletcher Newell, Nepo Laulala, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Tamaiti Williams, Tyrel Lomax; Locks: Brodie Retallick, Josh Lord, Sam Whitelock, Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa'i, Loose forwards: Ardie Savea, Dalton Papali'i, Luke Jacobson, Sam Cane (captain), Samipeni Finau, Shannon Frizell; Halfbacks: Aaron Smith, Finlay Christie, Cam Roigard, First-five eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie, Richie Mo'unga; Midfielders: Anton Lienert-Brown, Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Braydon Ennor, Dallas McLeod, Outside backs: Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Mark Telea, Will Jordan.

Shaun Stevenson (injury cover).
 
I hope the selectors know what they are doing because there are some huge calls in this squad.
Finau is an exciting player, a bit rough and has some work to do on the finer points of the game but cant help but admire how he throws himself into the game.
I'm not sold on Williams, he's a player for the future for sure but im not sure hes ready for a world cup. Aiden Ross deserves a spot more than he, Laulala or Ofa IMO
McLeod looks like a future AB as well, but injuries have obviously seen him come in. I'd maybe have gone for goodhue. My Concern is that Ioane just doesn't look anywhere near his best right now, form midfield is prob Jordie and ALB who is still building his way back from injury but looking good at least.

Cant deny the form of Emoni Narawa, Leicester Fainga'anuku & Mark Telea but I didn't think there was room for all of them. I guess there wont be for the world cup squad which will have 3 less players. Clarke has had great momments for the AB's but he hasn't looked near his best this year.
What does Shaun Stevenson need to do? He's been a revelation and probably more consistant than the other guys too. Coaches just aren't liking something about him or they would have picked him sooner. I guess with squad sizes the fullbacks are Jordan DMAC and Beauden but you want at least one of those guys fully focused on 10 I think squad balance is better if you have an extra fullback in there that can cover wing.
I think no Brad Weber is a mistake, I hope he makes the WC squad. Hes tough, experienced, quick and he clears the ball fast. I've always liked Cristie but he's not overtaken Weber IMO. Of this lot I Hope Roigard takes his chance, we need some real bite from the bench.
 
I assume that RC will be a reduced schedule again this year before RWC? That is where they get it right playing enough competitive games without playing too much.
 
I assume that RC will be a reduced schedule again this year before RWC? That is where they get it right playing enough competitive games without playing too much.
yeah usually we have a june series before the RC and/or a game against Pacific nation as a warmup but we go straight into a test in Argentina and TRC schedule is reduced as well I think.
 
1687157712839.png

stoked for guys like sam Gilbert and billy harmon, theyve had some big games for the struggling highlander team, good to see them recognised as on the cusp ok the AB's

I think Ainsley is actually a bit unlucky to not make the AB's proper, he's actually schooled a couples of AB props this year
 
i really struggle with people like braydon Ennor too...we've tried him...he's had several shots...and not stepped up....we might need to realise Super rugby might be his level
 
Very disappointing to not see Stevenson in the actual squad. For me he not only should be in the squad, he should be front-runner to start at 15 or 14 (alongside Jordan), with Telea at 11 (Faianganuku in Telea's absence). Everyone knows how good he has been all year. Foster's justification was that he needs work on the defensive side. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense when Foster is probably looking at Beaudy for 15. Beaudy is hardly the strongest tackler going around and has worse defensive stats than Stevenson this year. Their overall stats, of course, aren't even comparable. Obviously stats aren't everything, but I think anyone who's watched Super Rugby this year would agree that Stevenson is a greater asset at the back right now than Beaudy.

Likewise, picking Clarke is nonsensical. The argument could be made that we don't need Stevenson when we've got Jordan + Barrett + McKenzie.... but the same can be said re Clarke (we have Faianganuku, Telea Narawa AND Ioane). So really it should come down to who adds more value to the squad.... and no one in their right mind can say that Clarke does. His form is dreadful and he doesn't offer nearly as much as Stevenson. Simply not as good a player and certainly not in as good a form.

The other strange one is McLeod. Nothing against McLeod, he's a solid enough player, but I can't see how he's considered one of the top 5 midfielders in the country right now. He hasn't even been playing in the midfield this year! He's a solid enough player but certainly doesn't possess any attributes that make him All-Black quality right now imo. Goodhue would have been a much better pick for me. Goodhue's distribution, decision-making and defensive skills are world-class. I can't see what McLeod adds to our midfield, but I do hope to be proven wrong.

On a positive note, I think that Foster has made some good calls in tough areas. Particulary, I 100% agree with his picks at 9. This was probably the most evenly contested area, but I definitely think he's done the right thing in picking the form man Roidgard.... he offers something that no other halfback does and his form is just undeniable. He's someone who could make a real difference. Hard on Weber and Fakatava who are excellent in their own right, but Christie is a very good, well rounded player and I think deserves to be there. Smith is a no-brainer.

I'm glad he's picked Coles too. His experience is invaluable if it's between him and Aumua for the 3rd hooker role. And to be honest, I think people discredit how good Coles actually still is. He's still very quick and skillful and is accurate in everything he does. His gamesman ship shouldn't be overlooked either lol. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the 23 behind Taukeiaho more often than not.

Overall it's not a perfect squad but is a very strong squad and it's good to see that Foster hasn't been afraid to make hard decisions and reward form (in some cases). I only hope he and the other selector's come to their senses and include Stevenson come world-cup time (meaning Clarke / McLeod / Narawa miss out).
 
Coles was at his peak 8 years ago. Shame about the head knocks. He's now doing the Meleamu/Hore role.

You just know Foster is saving the 15 spot for Beauden to get a start and play RM at 10. I think that would be a mistake.
 
Based on the Squad they've picked, this is how I'd like us to line up for the first test (obviously not picking guys who are injured):

1. De Groot
2. Taukeiaho
3. Lomax
4. Retallick
5. Barrett....... Whitelock injured
6. Dalton Papali'i
7. Savea (C)........ I know this won't happen but a man can dream
8. Luke Jacobson
9. Smith
10. Mounga
11. Fainganuku....... Telea injured
12. Barrett
13. ALB......... in better form that Ioane and imo is a better 13 anyway.
14. Jordan
15. Stevenson

16. Coles..... Tough on Taylor but I think Coles can make a bigger impact
17. Tu'ungafasi
18. Williams
19. Vai'i
20. Frizzell...... 50/50 with Finau, I really rate Frizzell though
21. Roidgard
22. McKenzie....... tough on Barrett not making the 23 but just no room for him.
23. Ioane
 
Coles was at his peak 8 years ago. Shame about the head knocks. He's now doing the Meleamu/Hore role.

You just know Foster is saving the 15 spot for Beauden to get a start and play RM at 10. I think that would be a mistake.
yep...we keep going down the old road of getting the 15 players with the best ratings on EA Rugby 18 on the pitch at the same time no matter in what position, doesn't matter that we've tried RM and BB together loads of times and it just doesnt fire...try again!

the old adage of it being harder to get dropped from the AB than get into the AB is true
 
I am just picturing foster playing EA rugby 2018
oh...he doesn't play it...he just gets someone younger to load it up and bring up the list of players and he writes down "ooooh....he's a 86?...high number are good!"

The adage "a champion team will beat a team of champions" is completely wasted on him, he will play a spare 9 out of 10 forward on the wing rather than have to leave the behind and have a 8 out of 10 wing
 
I feel for Levi aumua. Not saying he should be there, but must be gutting to miss out on the all blacks and all blacks XV after racking up some awesome stats in super rugby, stating his allegiance to the all blacks and so also missing out on samoa and fiji squads, and quitting on moana pacifika. He will be 32 at following World Cup and probably not as powerful as he is now, so less likely to make all blacks then.

I feel for sotutu as well. I didn't think he'd make the all blacks but surprised he's not in the all blacks XV; that's gotta mean he's not going to the World Cup. I always thought he could be a specialist bench option for the all blacks, with his great ball skills coming to fore in the closing stages. But, despite all other commentators consistently saying he was playing well, I thought he had a poor super season. Pretty bad in the semi too.Akira was too.

Overall I can understand why the players who have been chosen have been chosen.

You can see they've tried to balance form with who will be good at the next level. And the comments on here show it's not an easy task - some calling for more form based selection, some for more 'capability at the next level' based selection. Just to touch on a few that others have mentioned...

Ennor has been in great form all year, and I love his distribution skills. I agree with @Kiwiwomble that he hasn't performed at test level though. But what he has failed at at test rugby is composure and being accurate. At super level he hasn't been consistently accurate either, but he has improved markedly in this season. Plus he may be more composed now with experience. However, unless he plays the house down and is competing for a starting spot it's hard to see how we take a specialist centre to the World Cup.

I can see why they have picked McLeod. He has good vision and distribution skills , like goodhue, but is also a powerful ball runner, more than goodhue at the moment, so they see him as a better 12 - where they want to see power. I agree with @Caitlyn Jenner though that goodhue trumps on the experience boat, and he can cover 12 and 13. It's a massive call to bring in someone inexperienced in the midfield in World Cup year though. I wouldn't say goodhue has missed his chance just yet though.

What to do about rieko? He does miraculous good things but also his play making skills are not what you'd expect from an all blacks centre.

Stevenson. Somebody said beauden is a bad defender, I don't really agree with that because he reads play pretty well on defence even if he might miss some tackles. But, still, stevenson has to be Better than beauden at the moment, deserves a chance. Hasn't always played well under pressure in the past but you have to give him a chance.

I can't see how beauden can make the 23 on form, even with telea injured.

On Clarke; agree w it h everyone that his super rugby form has been poor, but I wasn't at all surprised to see him selected. Why? He is one of our best under the high ball and that can sometimes be the most important quality in a winger at test level. Still, same point I made before: others deserve a chance. Caleb can be a fall back option.

On Ainsley: @Kiwiwomble , I wasn't sure the ref knew what he was doing in that game against the blues, but I reckon that might have lost him his place, simply because his opposition (ofa in this case) was able to get in the right side of the ref.

More generally, we need to take risks to have a chance of winning this World Cup; no one wants to ensure an admirable close loss in the quarterfinal, they'd rather have a chance of winning even if it means we might get hammered. That means playing guys like mckenzie and stevenson.
 
oh...he doesn't play it...he just gets someone younger to load it up and bring up the list of players and he writes down "ooooh....he's a 86?...high number are good!"

The adage "a champion team will beat a team of champions" is completely wasted on him, he will play a spare 9 out of 10 forward on the wing rather than have to leave the behind and have a 8 out of 10 wing
It doesn't help that the Barrets contract is a package deal signed in 2018 either
 
in the end for all the talk about the new guys in the squad....nothing with change

frizell or barrett will be 6, Cane 7 and Savea 8, the backline will be smith, RM, CC, JB, RI, Jordan and BB...he doesnt see the problems others see


he doesnt see that cane has a great super season at 7...when he has an old school 8 behind him, he doesnt see that savea has created his own position that just happens to scrum down at 8...but he needs different support around him to perform...he doesnt see barrett is a lock not a 6 and frizell has continuously failed to fire in the black jersey...a months ago he was fighting a 22 year old for his highlanders jersey...and loosing!
 
Agree with a lot of comments in this thread.

Possible explanation for Stevenson not being in the primary squad: (and I say this as a massive Stevenson fan.. and a name I would find a way to include)

Fullback options include: Will Jordan, DMac, Jordie and Beuden. Four players who are almost certainly in the squad and have fullback covered, so it is difficult to justify a 5th fullback option in the squad. Could argue Beuden is borderline on current form, but he is going to be in the squad.

Right wing options include: Telea, Will Jordan, Narawa with DMac/Beuden/McLeod all options in a pinch. On that basis its a call that Telea and Narawa are preferred as pure/first-choice right wingers over Stevenson (Telea providing left wing cover also).

Left wing: not really relevant as Stevenson is primarily a fullback/right-wing, but selection implies preference for a power left winger with Leicester and Caleb the primary options with cover in a pinch from Telea.

I would like to see the selectors articulate a clear specialist first/second choice by key positions, and only then solving for scenarios where we lose multiple players in a single position with utility considerations. That would look something like the following:

first choice (second choice)
15: Jordan (Stevenson)
14: Telea (Narawa)
13: ALB (Ennor) (I personally prefer defensive orientation + ball distributing 13 than the attack of Reiko)
12: Jordie (ALB)
11: Leicester (Caleb)
10: Mo'unga (DMac)
9: Smith (Weber)
8: Savea (Jacobson)
7: Cane (Papali'i)
6: Barrett (Finau)
5: Brodie (Vaii)
4: Whitelock (Vaii)
3: Lomax (Williams)
2: Samisoni (Taylor)
1: De Groot (Ofa)

That is 28 of the 36 players and can then layer in the specialty role cover (half, hooker, props) which for me would be:

Roigard
Coles
Newell
Laulala (borderline selection for me)

and finally broader utility cover which for me would be:

Bauden (covers 10, 14, 15)
Frizell (covers 6, 5)
McLeod (covers 12, 14)
Harmon (covers 7)
 

Latest posts

Top