All Blacks Squad 2023 TRC

[Kiwiwomble]

surely if RI isnt 13 you have him starting at 11?

 

[matt33]

surely if RI isnt 13 you have him starting at 11?

No question about RI's game breaking ability given his next level acceleration, pace and lines.

For me personally though (and many will disagree!!), in tough WC quarters/semi's/final where there are so few opportunities, I struggle with his decision making, distribution skills and on occasion poor handling.

I feel like we have world class outside backs and with that identifying and creating space is of higher value in my mind. So for me, wanting to enable that strength, I prefer and prioritize stronger midfield defense and distribution skills (probably influenced somewhat by Conrad Smith, Frank Bunce, etc) than the electric but sometimes inconsistent RI skillset.

Wrt left wing.. the RI handling and decision making still holds as a concern and I also prefer the power left wing model as an additional destructive ball carrier/gain line option. We dont tend to have many downhill style ball carriers (Samisoni as major exception). Ardie great after contact, but less of a downhill style guy, Frizzell more so but not in obvious starting 15 form, Blackadder has it but is injured. Neither Cane or Whitelock are bruising downhill guys. Brodie and Barrett more so, but overall when you list the primary gain line/hard downhill carry options it feels thin given we do play a bruising 12 or 13. Therefore getting enough of that gain line carry from 2, 5, 6, 11 is important. I think this is primarily why Finau has been selected and I think why Sowakula last year as the selectors are desperate for more of that downhill carrying style on the park. Which I also think plays into why Akira and Hoskins are not in the squad - both being more ranging/dynamic/wide channel style guys and less the downhill type.

Interested in other thoughts and considerations?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

For me RI showed v England he's lacking those top 2 inches in the head to be a top 13.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

RI is definitely not a conrad smith kind of 13, hes a different beast, not all 13 are the same and i think having someone like jordan, who just sees where the ball is going to be in 3 "moves" ahead outside him, and someone more creative inside him then he is more than comfortable at 13 on the international stage

he doesnt try and make space for his wing, he tries to get in behind the line and then go out to the wing or back to support, different aint broke...an we have enough broke that RI at 13 is not something im worried about

if we did every get JB and ALB fit then i would be very temped to put him back at 11

 

[Larksea]

I often say in selecting for world cups first and formost a player needs to show that he can defend at a high level, if they cant then it doesn't really matter what they can do on attack. So if Stevensons defence is not where it needs to be then so be it. But I would say that Clarke and Telea probably dont make that cut either by those standards. Clarke tends to look focused at do well on defence and then flat out miss tackles he should make. That while his attacking game isn't where it has been either. I do miss the days when we had Jane and kahui on the wings. Both world class defenders to the point they could shut down an attack when they were out numbered.

In all seriousness I would have picked Sean as starting 15 for the All Blacks and Jordan at 14. My biggest concern with Stevenson is that he has had a big workload through super rugby and looks like he needs a couple of weeks to rebuild his energy and fittness.

My other Biggest Concern is that Ioane is flat and has been for a while now. It would be good to get into his head and find out whats going on. Going back he stormed the world in 2017-18 and then his form disapeared in 2019 for the world cup... history repeating itself? I would honestly pick RTS over Ioane on form right now.

Mostly I hope we try players and find out who's hot and whos not and make selections one form and go into the WC with the form players. If Weber is as good as we know he is for the XV and cristie continues to just look average I hope those calls get made. I also hope there is an avenue for Aidan Ross to make the Cup. Ofa and Laulala have been average at best while Ross has been a Monster.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

if we did every get JB and ALB fit then i would be very temped to put him back at 11

Yep, hence why I would go with ALB or Goodhue (if he's fit again) at 13 over RI as well.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Yep, hence why I would go with ALB or Goodhue (if he's fit again) at 13 over RI as well.

huge IF though, i dont think ALB has managed to string multiple games together for the ABs for years

i hoestly think it s moot point, baring injury RI is 13 just like all the other positions are nailed on

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

surely if RI isnt 13 you have him starting at 11?

I would agree but he just hasn't been playing there so hard to say he starts over Faianganuku or Telea

 

[Bada-Bing!]

i hoestly think it s moot point, baring injury RI is 13 just like all the other positions are nailed on

If ABs don't end up going all the way and I don't personally pick them to do so, given Foster is still in charge it would be indicative like Cullen in 1999 and Muliaina in 2007 of playing a back 3 player at 13, despite playing regularly there for the Blues.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

If ABs don't end up going all the way and I don't personally pick them to do so, given Foster is still in charge it would be indicative like Cullen in 1999 and Muliaina in 2007 of playing a back 3 player at 13, despite playing regularly there for the Blues.

yeah, most kiwis i know aren't confident, havent seen enough things fixed over the last couple of seasons

i get what your saying but personally i think it is quite different so mils, cullen, macdonald and Ben smith (yeah....weve done it lots of times)...hes probably played on the wing twice in 4 years and the last time in 2020...hes playing 13 and scoring tries there...all those other examples are actually fullbacks, so playmakers, moving to midfield...Ri is a weapon, so is a move to counter the rush defence, dont have time to be creative...no worries, will try and punch through

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Yep, hence why I would go with ALB or Goodhue (if he's fit again) at 13 over RI as well.

100% agree. ALB should be the front runner at 13 with Goodgue challenging him. Reiko should be fighting for the 11 Jersey with Faianganuku and Telea. Jordie is good at 12.

 

[Larksea]

ALB and Jordie are our best midfield right now. I hope Reiko's form comes back to him soon, he's clearly not at his best right now and we have pleanty of form wing options. He needs to keep hihs focus on Midfield and get over what ever he's got right now, would be interesting to know if he's carrying an injury. I think it turned out he was carrying an injury in 2019? I hope its not the same **** again.
Narawa is the real deal, more complete game than Telea and should be a starter. Fainga'anuku and Clarke should have the left wing sorted, I hope Clarkes form builds he's not quite at his best but he makes meters, still arguably the most powerful ball carrier we have and he's pretty well rounded. Just has a habit of dropping the odd takle he should make.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

No question about RI's game breaking ability given his next level acceleration, pace and lines.

For me personally though (and many will disagree!!), in tough WC quarters/semi's/final where there are so few opportunities, I struggle with his decision making, distribution skills and on occasion poor handling.

I feel like we have world class outside backs and with that identifying and creating space is of higher value in my mind. So for me, wanting to enable that strength, I prefer and prioritize stronger midfield defense and distribution skills (probably influenced somewhat by Conrad Smith, Frank Bunce, etc) than the electric but sometimes inconsistent RI skillset.

Wrt left wing.. the RI handling and decision making still holds as a concern and I also prefer the power left wing model as an additional destructive ball carrier/gain line option. We dont tend to have many downhill style ball carriers (Samisoni as major exception). Ardie great after contact, but less of a downhill style guy, Frizzell more so but not in obvious starting 15 form, Blackadder has it but is injured. Neither Cane or Whitelock are bruising downhill guys. Brodie and Barrett more so, but overall when you list the primary gain line/hard downhill carry options it feels thin given we do play a bruising 12 or 13. Therefore getting enough of that gain line carry from 2, 5, 6, 11 is important. I think this is primarily why Finau has been selected and I think why Sowakula last year as the selectors are desperate for more of that downhill carrying style on the park. Which I also think plays into why Akira and Hoskins are not in the squad - both being more ranging/dynamic/wide channel style guys and less the downhill type.

Interested in other thoughts and considerations?

I like your thoughts about downhill runners. Despite being a big ardie fan, I always get annoyed at how commentators and others go on and on about post contact meters. Sometimes being able to not go to ground can be good, yes. It can give opportunities for offloads, cattract additional defenders, or give time for your support to make the clean once you go to ground. But so often all it does is give time for the defence to organise for the next phase.

But I don't really agree with you that you need, necessarily, a power winger. To me you just need enough "downhill" runners in your team, wherever that might be. I always think you need three really good ones, and two or three in the next tier. Perhaps with our current stock of players that means you end up with a power winger.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I like your thoughts about downhill runners. Despite being a big ardie fan, I always get annoyed at how commentators and others go on and on about post contact meters. Sometimes being able to not go to ground can be good, yes. It can give opportunities for offloads, cattract additional defenders, or give time for your support to make the clean once you go to ground. But so often all it does is give time for the defence to organise for the next phase.

But I don't really agree with you that you need, necessarily, a power winger. To me you just need enough "downhill" runners in your team, wherever that might be. I always think you need three really good ones, and two or three in the next tier. Perhaps with our current stock of players that means you end up with a power winger.

yeah, ive been shouted down before talking about ardie's "post contact meters"

Yes...he gets over the advantage line...but...he also, more often than i would like, isolates himself from support. others will get those meters in a pod with support right on your shoulder and so when you go to ground you have someone right there to clear out....ardie often does it in more open play and so doesn;t always have the support

 

[Umaga's Witness]

So ALB is out for first two tests. I wonder how McLeod is. Faingaanuku might have to cover 12 since there are no other twelves after Jordie if McLeod is out.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I don't think leicester has ever played 12 in pro rugby, only 13, but it doesn't seem like the worst option. Although not the best combo with rieko. Could work if they had ennor on the bench, then if Jordie got injured they bring ennor on to 13, move rieko to 11, and leicester to 12.

They might just bring in goodhue though.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Could work if they had ennor on the bench, then if Jordie got injured they bring ennor on to 13, move rieko to 11, and leicester to 12.

Surely in that situation they just shift Rieko to 12. Not ideal but he did spend most of a season there with the Blues so has some experience and it wouldn't involve shuffling around the whole backline.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Oh dear. How low has Newzealand rugby sunk if they are having to settle for Rieko at 12 and Leicester at 13. Dear me!

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Surely in that situation they just shift Rieko to 12. Not ideal but he did spend most of a season there with the Blues so has some experience and it wouldn't involve shuffling around the whole backline.

I really can't see that happening or being a good idea. Rieko is not a 12. Having played really badly at 12 for the blues five years ago doesn't count. Ennor at 12 would be a better idea as he has a good passing game. But an ennor ione combo is not a good one whichever way around it goes; neither of them truck the ball up, neither of them have a step (their running styles are incredibly similar). The shuffle I suggested seems to me the least disruptive option for the team as a whole.

Oh dear. How low has Newzealand rugby sunk if they are having to settle for Rieko at 12 and Leicester at 13. Dear me!

Well no one suggested that combo but yes that would indicate we had sunk very low. retallick at halfback on the hand...

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i know im bias but they should just call up TUJ, currently fit and has stayed that way for most of the season so i think his injury worries are behind him...and he tore it up for the Highlanders, managing to look good in a loosing team has to make you think about what they could do behind an AB pack